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Date	Original Topic
14th August 2005	The Queens Shilling By Dawn Taking the Queens Shilling means joining the army after the way recruiting sergeants offered a shilling -or more- to recruits. Was this practice still at large in the late 19th century? I tried it on google to find the dates for this but you won't believe what came up. (A different type of queen!) I'm trying to find out whether those present at Isandwana, even the young ones, would have been offered a recruitment incentive or had this practice stopped by then?
Date	Replies
14th August 2005	Geoff This extract from my local newspaper in 1877 may help POLICE COURT - WILIAM KELLY, LABOURER OF LICHFIELD STREET, TOOK QUEENS SHILLING FROM CORPL F.DELANY OF ROYAL MARINES & THEN DID NOT TURN UP TO BE SWORN IN - SENT TO PRISON FOR 1 MONTH
14th August 2005	Geoff This extract from my local newspaper in 1877 may help POLICE COURT - WILIAM KELLY, LABOURER OF LICHFIELD STREET, TOOK QUEENS SHILLING FROM CORPL F.DELANY OF ROYAL MARINES & THEN DID NOT TURN UP TO BE SWORN IN - SENT TO PRISON FOR 1 MONTH
14th August 2005	Paul Cubbin Dawb - perhaps you should try typing in 'Army Camp'?
14th August 2005	Mike McCabe There were two elements of immediate reward to the newly enlisted/attested (different technical meanings) recruit during most of the second half of the 19th C. The payment of a recruitment 'bounty', intended to be paid directly to the new recruit - but (anecdotally) often targeted by the unscrupulous recruiter as something to be drunk away or acquired dishonestly. Also, the payment of 'The Shilling' in token of the first day's pay. The shilling, with grudging increases and some variations, was the daily rate of pay for a Private, and equivalents, for much of the 19th C. Indeed, there are those who argue that the Norman French word 'soldes' (that is, shilling) is the origin of the word 'soldier' in English, and 'soldat' in French. MC McC
14th August 2005	Dawn And any truth to the rumour that most of it was taken away in the first day for the payment of 'essentials'? Dawn
14th August 2005	Mike McCabe The serving soldier would be subject to various charges leading to deductions from his pay at source. These might include such cost headings as: - Barrack damages, when incurred. - Deductions for the repair, maintenance or replacement of items of issued equipment in his charge. - Any 'stoppages' of pay resulting from the award of suthorised disciplinary minor punishments. - Any subscriptions voluntarily made to regimental welfare funds. - Charges for 'coals and candles' when in (some) barracks. - Stoppages or allotments made for the support and maintenance of a wife or dependent relative. By the second half of the 19th C, this was properly supervised and regulated and the abuses of the 18th and early 19th C largely terminated. MC McC
14th August 2005	Dawn Mike Thanks, thats cleared it up. Dawn
14th August 2005	Keith Smith Dawn I'm not sure if it is still current practice but when I volunteered for three years in 1953 I received one shilling for doing so. KIS
15th August 2005	Dawn Keith How much did that buy you in 1953? Dawn
15th August 2005	Sean Sweeney Rather than the proverbial 'shilling', due to inflationary pressures, no doubt, in 1825, at age sixteen, my Gt Gt Grandfather received the princely sum of 'Four Pounds Sterling', on enlistment at Glasgow, on 13th September 1825, and it appears, a further ten shillings on attestment, the day after, in the presence of a magistrate, on 14th September 1825.(Where he made his mark 'X') This is a little earlier than the AZW period, but gives an indication as to what might have transpired. Perhaps someone else may know when this practice ceased as an enlistment tool ?, or whether the value fluctuated with the laws of 'supply and demand' .(rate of attrition !), and what 'licence', recruiters had to entice the poor, illiterate boys into the services. Sean Sweeney
15th August 2005	Michael Boyle The way I understand it the shilling 'signed' the contract, any extra money was for the 'bounty' (enlistment bonus) and in the latter 19th century the recruiter had to take you before a magistrate (?) , I believe after 24 hrs. to prove you were serious (not drunk). If you you could later prove that you were incapacitated you could get an anullment of sorts. If all else failed you could 'buy out' your enlistment for a fairly considerable sum. The term 'illegal enlistment' seemed to refer to either someone who got caught underage ( rare, unless someone from your family tracked you down) or for someone who during the 'bonus' times signed up, deserted, and tried to sign up again for another bonus. There was in fact an actual shilling involved and thanks to Keith we know the practice survived until relatively recently at least. (Keith, did you keep it for a 'good luck piece?) Most of the above can be found in Skelley's "The Victorian Army at Home". MAB
15th August 2005	Keith Smith Michael Sorry but as an impoverished youth, it was quickly consumed. I wish had done so now, with the wisdom of hindsight! KIS
15th August 2005	Keith Smith Michael Sorry but as an impoverished youth, it was quickly consumed. I wish had done so now, with the wisdom of hindsight! Sorry - to continue ... I volunteered for three years because with conscription then current, I had to serve for two years anyway. The differnece was that men doing Nasho got 25s a week and I got 35s. Big deal! KIS
23rd August 2005	Richard I joined the RAF in the late seventies, and I got given £1at the recruiting office. This wasnt pay though, it was subsistence money to buy food on the train. My first pay was a few days later, and I got£9.50p.