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Coll
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:30 pm |
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Rich
Yes, it is difficult to find.
It is mentioned in Sheldon's book on page 363, with an illustration of the trade advertisement from 'Variety', 22 April 1964, for what was to be a collaboration for a film that never happened.
John Weston's 'The War Horses', obviously was published pre-1964, possibly in the U.S., but I've no idea if it was limited to a set number of prints, or was a mass market paperback.
However, logic dictates it may not have been the latter, as I think in that case at least a few copies would be in circulation.
I'm really interested in the concept of the story about a group of Boer horsemen fighting in Africa and the American West, which also matches nicely with the concept of U.S. weapons and equipment heading to Africa in their hands, at the time of the Zulu War 1879.
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:28 pm |
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Peter
Yes, though it was quite difficult discussing them on the firearms forum of this site, due to lack of mention or presence of various U.S. firearms in the Zulu War 1879, especially any from the American Civil War or even the American Indian Wars era.
There was mention of firearms trading in Africa by the Portuguese(?) amongst others, but these appeared to be mostly obsolete flintlocks, etc., with no reference to quality firearms from the U.S., unless brought over to Africa by American adventurers, or British adventurers who had acquired them beforehand.
I've been wondering about how much American presence there was in South Africa in the 1870s, perhaps disillusioned ACW soldiers after their war ended seeking a new life, or civilians.
However, I've never tried to find out if the U.S. was interested in Africa pre-1879.
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:43 am |
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Sawubona
Yes. I'm only really aware of the U.S. being involved abroad in the 'Boxer Rebellion' years later, but only due to watching the film '55 Days At Peking', so don't know how involved they were or why ?
Trade perhaps ?
Makes me think they might have had agents/surveyors/advisors in Africa in the 1870s, due maybe to the diamonds or gold, though not necessarily recognised as U.S. officials.
That said, there might have been others not offical - gunrunners, etc., who had made their way over, though I've never read mention of such, at least at the time of the Zulu War 1879.
Coll
P.S. Alan's right. A more apt word might have been better. ![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif)
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Sawubona
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:46 pm |
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Now Peter, don't make me pull out my OED (which is a backroom bookshelf somewhere) and look up THE word. Is it possible that your (plural) interpretation of "shag" is historically more correct? So what exactly is a shag carpet or for that matter, a shaggy dog?
Not "trade", Coll, but bald-faced Imperialism. It's just my humble opinion, but our war with Spain back in 1898 was a pretty blatant territory grab. Well, maybe not "just" my opinion at that. It was a popular war at the time (as most wars are among the winners and the obvious winners to be), but many talking heads even at the time would have appreciated just a bit more subtly of "cause".
For perspective and to put this all within the context of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879, you have to keep in mind that diamonds had only been found in Kimberly some thirteen years before the AZW and we Yanks had never been much into diamonds (we don't have a lot in the ground) Gold however, which we already did know well and loved even more, still had another decade to go before being discovered in Johannesburg. It was only then that Southern Africa in general and South Africa in particular began to get labeled on the world maps hung in American classrooms.
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Peter Ewart
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:55 pm |
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Another well known variant is brought to mind with Christopher Isherwood's familiar bit of nonsense rhyme:
The comon cormorant or shag
Lays eggs inside a paper bag ... etc etc
The Spanish-American reference immediately brings us back to WSC and his exciting 21st birthday! Had he hung around Cuba for another year or so, he might have found himself fired on by his maternal countrymen, rather than their supporting his efforts, as in his later life.
The American presence in Natal (or what became Natal) from the 1830s onwards and in Zululand during the 1830s was perhaps far from negligible. The brief gun-running escapade(s) of the St Michael was/were unconnected with the sudden influx of a small number Americans in the mid-1830s, sent by the American Board of Missionaries. Some were back in the States after a very few years but had already experienced some unbelievable times. People like Champion, Adams, Venable, Lindley, Grout and others undoubtebly left their mark, either from their long term activities or their chronicling and publishing of their (sometimes brief) experiences. Those who remained were very active indeed for some decades, mostly in the east of what became Natal, but elsewhere too, into the 20th century. I forget for a moment whether it was William Ngidi or Magema Fuze (it may have been both) who had been originally converted and educated by the Americans near the coast. Both men certainly left their mark on the history of the region and, in Ngidi's case, indirectly on the world.
The Americans didn't care to hang around Mzilikazi or Dingane for long, however! Talk about dangerous moments with those two! For example, just as Piet Retief's head was being bashed in and he joined his 70-odd mates as the vultures' dinner that day, and before the kerries had hardly been wiped clean, an American wandered up to the main entrance of Dingane's capital and asked what the hell was going on!!!
Peter
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