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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:20 pm

Dear All,

We've heard the bands deployed during the war. I have two questions regarding these military musicians:

What music did they play?

Did they double up as stretcher bearers during the fighting?

AMB

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:07 pm

There was a little discussion about the bands and their music amongst this thread that might be of interest.

http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=739&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

cheers,
Sean

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:09 pm

Sean,

Many thanks for your last. Very interesting. I've been busy and have not kept up to date with forum topics. Thank you for bring me up to speed!

A further question. Was the Regtl band in 1879 additional to the bn's drummers or were the drummers part of the band?

AMB

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:21 pm

Dear AMB,

There were TWO bands - 1/24th (at Isandlwana) and 2/24th (with Lord Chelmsford) on 22 January 1879

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:26 pm

Martin,

Your last is noted - thank you. Were the drummers part of these bands or were they separate (as are the fifes and drums today in some line Regts).

AMB

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:55 pm

I'm no expert on this, but I'll attempt to explain what little I've gleaned.

Drummer was a rank in the Victorian Army, and in infantry regiments, at some stage also trained and carried a bugle, relaying instructions to the troops. Equivalent of the cavalry 'trumpeter'.

Has it's history in the earlier traditions of Fifes and Drums, as well, and the later pipes and drums in the Highland regiments, before military bands really became established in the regiments. Some Highland pipers were on strength as 'drummers'.

In Victorian times, there appears to have been some confusion at times as regimental bands were often over establishment, on condition that when required they would revert back to the ranks.

The company drummers would normally have been under command of the Drum Sergeant (or Drum Major), and not part of the band. But there were also 'bandsmen' drummers, who would generally hold the rank of bandsman, and double as stretcher bearers, as and when required, with the rest of the band, and be under command of the band sergeant, or a 'bandmaster', a rank generally equivalent to a Warrant Officer.

cheers,
Sean

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:58 pm

Andrew,

Hope the following is of interest, taken from the diary of a Natal Carbineer as No.4 Column drewnear to Helpmekaar early January 1879.

�Our next move was towards Helpmekaar and we had the band of the 24th to drum us out of town (Pietermaritzburg) and when they had gone far enough they wheeled to the side and continued playing till Fletcher�s horse became restive, at the sound of the drums and rearing up fell with him almost on top of the big drum. Thus our music came to an untimely end, bad omen ��

The column reached Helpmekaar several days later. The diary continued;-

�The 24th came marching in, in due time, and another ominous incident occurred, a huge bull frog, red and green, hopped up and stopped the band again and the whole battalion swerved aside as to avoid his bullfrogship who sat placidly winking at the men.�

Days later the Column was close to Isandlwana.

�During our march along clear country the band broke off suddenly in the middle of a verse of �Don�t You Love me Molly Darling�. When Fletcher fell and abruptly stopped the music it was �Nancy Lee� that was being played but I do not remember the tune the bull frog interrupted�.

Another source quotes tunes played on the march by the 24th as �Let me Kiss Him For His Mother� and �The Girl I Left Behind Me� (p. 69 Zulu Victory)

The recent reprint of �The Naval Brigade in South Africa� H. F. Norbury mentions the bands of the 24th and 88th playing on the march and in the evenings as entertainment for both O/R�s and officers. It also mentions the 91st Highlanders playing �The Campbells are Coming� as the relief column neared Eshowe. At Ulundi Col.. Wood ordered the 13th L.I. to take their instruments into battle and the Trumpet- Major of the 17th Lancers recalled �The colours were flying and the bands were playing as we advanced �� (p.256 Zulu Vanquished).

A year or so later, December 1880, the forty strong band of the 94th Regt., that had fought at Ulundi, were playing on the march when the column was ambushed at Bronkhorstspruit by a contingent of mounted Boers. The band had been leading the column in singing and whistling �Kiss me Mother, Kiss your Darling�. How sentiment has changed! The titles of many of the tunes would be regarded as extremely soppy by today�s standards.

Can�t find any mention of the band acting as stretcher bearers.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:58 am

Band 1st/24th acted as stretcher bearers at Isandlwana. See page 206 of HCMDB. They were assigned to companies, operated forward on the firing line, but about 10 minutes after the fight had stabilised were ordered back to the hospital tents by Peter Shepherd. Source is Pte Edmund Wilson the Isandlwana survivor and bandsman.

Regards

M

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:01 am

I'm sure I read somewhere, could be HCMDB or maybe it was Smith-Dorrien's report, that the bandsmen were also used to take ammunition to the firing line. As my sources aren't handy, I can't double check.

The bandsmen also went out with Chelmsford. One has visions of him picnicing in Mangeni valley accompanied by the band, whilst the battle raged at Isandlwana. I know that's quite whimsical but you could just picture it in a cartoon, couldn't you? Smile

Dawn

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:18 am

There is also a report somewhere of the Buffs band entertaining the troops during the seige at Eshowe.

Definitely not a picnic,
but,
Light airs, with music fit for Morris Dancers, is the image conjured in my mind,

Although in reality Military Bands with their big brass obviously had a bit more punch.

I wouldn't know how versatile they might have been with their range of music, as they are these days.

Sean

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am

Sean

Given that Kneller Hall had by then been established for about a generation, I'd surmise that the band's range of music might be quite wide in 1879, if not yet as wide as in later times. I also imagine the light airs, when played on the march, would be adapted with a military beat (the drums alone would provide this) although possibly not when played to entertain the men during rest periods. After all, these light country airs (many of them adapted for regimental quick marches) sound quite different when used as a march.

I think these songs and tunes were a mixture of (a) ancient rural survivals often having a particularly regional origin, and (b) the latest sentimental pop songs emanating from the music halls and possibly already know to those from urban districts. A Farmer's Boy, for example, survived in more than one version into the second half of the 19th century, and was evidently adapted with ease by several different regiments for their own traditional quick march (what better for a shire regiment recruiting agricultural labourers?) and was thereby converted from a sentimental drinking song with the usual melancholy lyrics into a rousing and utterly peerless (sorry Mike!) quick march.

I'm not sure that morris dancing music isn't quite different again.

Dawn

As you say, definitely whimsical I'd think! I don't know what time he'd have got to sleep on the Tuesday night, but having been woken in the middle of it and ridden out of camp between, say, 3 and 4 (versions differ) ridden for many miles up hill & down dale in the heat until around mid-morning, he must have been absolutely gasping for a cuppa and a bite. As it obviously had to be al fresco, the term "picnic" arises with all its casual overtones, whereas all he and his staff were really doing was getting out of the saddle for a moment and grabbing an overdue bite. Late breakfast, early lunch or "brunch."

The men's circumstances that morning were probably even worse, and the NNC's worse still, I admit, but even a cartoon suggesting an air of comfort and ease might be a bit cruel. (On the other hand, I do recall seeing a source quite recently which described that particular "pitstop" and I wondered if the banquet portrayed in Zulu Dawn had originated from that reference, which I can't recall at present).

The experiences and hardships of both officers and men that day, from pre-dawn to evening bivouac, are a reminder of how hardy and tough they all were.

Peter

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:02 am

Of course, I was being facetious in mentioning the picnic as I know no such thing took place.

It was a tough day for Chelmsford's troops that day, they arose before dawn, marched across the plain and then up and down dale in the Mangeni Valley, only to march back again, spend a restless night in amongst the bodies of their comrades and then march to Rorke's Drift, fully expecting the same scene to be repeated. Then a keyed up day expecting another attack.

And not a cup of tea in sight until they got to Rorke's Drift.

I can't imagine how they did it, especially as I don't function until after the second cup of coffee in the morning.

They were a tough lot for sure.

Dawn

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:47 am

Dawn

Yes, I realised you were joking. I wish I could remember the source which I read again only recently (probably the memoir of a contemporary - Montague? Hallam Parr?) which, interestingly enough, did suggest a bit of a nice picnic!

Peter

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:33 pm

I'm sure the staff did stop for a bite to eat after they'd given up on getting a proper battle at Mangeni, but nothing like the silly scene in the silly film. A real picnic - but without the tartan blanket to sit on! We should imagine, I would suggest, a few horses munching on the grass in the background and his Lordship sat on a rock, with the rest of the staff idling around in the grass...Crealock probably wondering whether he had time to whip his sketchbook out. I expect they fed from the contents of their saddle bags. Hard tack Biscuits and bully beef? Perhaps somebody shared around a tin of something fancy with a Fortnum & Mason label! I'm sure they were churning out hampers even way back in 79.

Peter

Almost peerless! Very Happy

Regards

Mike

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:06 am

Yes Peter,
I guess jingling bells and lace hankies would be a bit out of place.

I came across this reference to music being played. I'd seen it before. From a 17th Lancer, trooper Miles Gissop, giving an account of the Ulundi charge.

'When all was over we returned to camp, the 90th Light Infantry playing "See the Conquering Heroes come, We don't want to fight" and other tunes.'

'We don't want to fight' ?
Who were they trying to kid !!!

http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/britishcavalry/17thlancersgissoplecture.htm

The article also refers to Col Drury-Lowe, my Gt Uncle's 'benefactor', who purchased a commission for him after the Crimea, having survived the 'Charge of the Light Brigade', badly wounded, and his horse killed under him. He was a regimental 'trumpeter', orderly trumpeter to the Commanding Officer on that fateful day at Balaklava.
He became the 17th Lancers Adjutant, Paymaster, and eventually retired in 1894, as an Hon Lt Col. after 46 years service.
Not bad for a 'Boy' bandsman !

cheers,
Sean