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The genes will out
Julian whybra


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 437
Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:07 am Reply with quote
This week I happened to see the film on TV 'A Matter of Life and Death' (1946) starring David Niven and I was struck at the strong family resemblance he has to his grandfather killed at Isandhlwana, especially the photo of him in Mackinnon and Shadbolt. He has the same shaped face, eyes, nose, hair, hairline, mouth, build even, and 'look', plus of course Niven in the film was almost exactly the same age as his grandfather when he was killed.
So, for all you AZW buffs, who am I talking about?
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Peter Quantrill
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Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:26 pm Reply with quote
Julian,
I have no prior knowledge, but looking at Mackinnon and Shadbolt, Edgar Anstey shows a remarkable resemblance.
Julian whybra


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 437
Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:41 pm Reply with quote
No, I'll wait a few days before revealing the answer to give others a chance.
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:43 pm Reply with quote
Julian,

I wish they were all that easy, shall I say to keep it going, that his grandfather & his great uncle had used another name earlier in their careers!

Regards,

John Y.
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Julian whybra


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 437
Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:46 pm Reply with quote
Yes, keep it going.
Apparently the family still have some of his letters and a lock of his hair.
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Ian Woodason


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 8
Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:58 pm Reply with quote
And that 'other name' is just as illustrious in the world of film as Niven's....

The surname was changed by deed poll dated 15th December 1873

Ian
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Jamie


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 149
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:02 pm Reply with quote
Charlie Pope or Godwen-Austen ?
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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1797
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England.
Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:29 pm Reply with quote
.. and I walk past a brass plaque in memory of his illustrious & more fortunate sibling every day.

At this rate, Julian, no-one's going to spill the beans!

Peter
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Julian,

While we're on this track.

Which battle connects David Niven's wartime batman's grandmother to Lord Chelmsford?

Woody,

Are you Psycho?

John Y.
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tony.ashford.@ntlworld,co


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Lenton, Nottingham
Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:54 pm Reply with quote
I'd have said Anstey or perhaps Godwen-Austen, or what about Pope? But I have to make a guilty confession - I checked on the Net. I won't say anything else!!
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stupo


Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 2
Location: Perth, Scotland
Post Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:11 pm Reply with quote
would it be captain william Degacher? although i must say anstey bears more than an uncanny resemblence to niven but maybe to young as he was 36 when said movie was made,although I'm open to correction! Shocked
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Coll
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:20 am Reply with quote
Fascinating. I happened to watch the very same film. Never thought David Niven had a connection to the battle at Isandlwana. I must admit, I didn't think it was the individual that I discovered after checking the internet.

Out of curiosity, did he ever mention in interviews, etc., that his grandfather was in this famous engagement ?

Coll
Julian whybra


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 437
Post Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:58 am Reply with quote
Well done, Coll, William Degacher it was, and yes, in the latest biography of Niven ('Niv', I think it's called) there's a wee bit about his mother's father. I don't recall whether he mentions it in his autobiography, it's been so long since I read it - I suppose he must have because I've always known about it
So, there's just JY's conundrum to solve now!
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Julian whybra


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 437
Post Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:59 am Reply with quote
Sorry, it was Stupo, not Coll!
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Coll
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:42 am Reply with quote
Can it be that Peter Ustinov's great grandfather was held hostage during the Magdala campaign, in which Chelmsford was serving as Adjutant General ?

I've only picked up pieces of information, but is this the connection ?

Coll
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