rorkesdriftvc.com :: View topic

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:51 pm

We are all aware of the oft-stated remark about Rorke's Drift holding the record for the most-decorated action with 11 VCs. I have been wondering for some time why it is that Inkermann doesn't hold this record with 16 VCs on 5.11.1854. I'm not being mischievous - there's probably a perfectly good reason - I'm just curious, that's all.

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:11 pm

Julian,

It is because the statement should be 7 VCs to the 24th Regt for a single action. The nearest is 6 VCs to the Lancashire Fusiliers on 25 April 1915.

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:54 pm

If I may be indulged to cite the following passage from my book:

'Whether Rorke's Drift has, as is often claimed, resulted in the award of the highest number of Victoria Crosses for a single action is debatable. At the storming of the Great Redan on 18th June 1855, during the Crimean War, ten Victoria Crosses were awarded plus ten more when cited in conjunction with another deed; at the second battle of the Redan on 8th September 1855 nine plus three were awarded; at Inkerman on 5th November 1854, fifteen Victoria Crosses were awarded, plus six more when cited in conjunction with another deed. Taking into account the fact that the battle of Rorke's Drift was fought over two days, the Second Relief of Lucknow on 12th November 1857 yielded seventeen Victoria Crosses on the first day, five the following day and five more on the third day. Yet what Rorke's Drift can claim is the most Victoria Crosses, seven, awarded to a single regiment for a single action. '

Hope that helps.

Jonathan

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:23 pm

Jonathan,

That's what I said in fewer words. However I would dispute your comment about RD being over 2 days - the action lasted approx 12 hours. Certainly more troops in the Crimea and Mutiny.

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:59 pm

Martin,

Rorke's Drift was fought over two calendar days - 12 hours, yes, but technically two days. There were certainly more troops involved in the Crimean War and the Indian Mutiny, but it's worth recalling that 'The Illustrated London News' hoped that all the survivors would receive a Victoria Cross. Over one hundred would certainly have been unique!

Regards,
Jonathan

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:24 am

Nine VCs to a single regiment in a single day.

M

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:27 am

But not in a single action ... Wink

P.E.

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:29 am

That's not what I said! Laughing

M

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:52 am

2 day 'battle'...no. Twelve hour 'battle' ...not really. 12 hour 'action'...arguably.

The 'facts':

1. Direct frontal assault stopped about 21-30 hrs = five hours heavy fighting.

2. Post deemed invulnerable by Zs Sniping/and fusillades - 21.30 until 02-00 = 9.5 hr 'action'.

(Where were the Z regimental main bodies at this time? In the shadows close by? In the shadows out of range? Helpiing the wounded away? Asleep? Withdrawing to the river to sleep? Some combination of all the above? By what criteria do we decide whether there is still an 'action' in progress?)

3. Last shots not long after 4-00 am (arguably) = call it 11.5/12 hrs

4. The last shot - when the lone Zulu popped up behind the cattle kraal - well after first light (- had he been asleep - the sleep of the metaphorical dead, rather than the literally dead!) 14/15 hrs.

I think watching Zulu too often might incline people to think of it as an 'action' from 22-23 Jan. (Think - Richard Burton's voice in the dying moments of the movie). Personally it seems a bit wooly. If I was marking history essays I don't think I would have a problem with - 'the Battle of Rorke's Drift on 22 Jan 1879'

I had no idea 15 VCs were awarded at Inkerman until Julian pointed it out. How interesting.

M

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:20 am

Mike/Martin

Those famous "6 VCs before breakfast" won by the Lancs Fusiliers at Gallipoli could, I've always thought, be trumped by the 24th's "7 VCs before breakfast" at RD - but, sadly, not if the timespan of the engagement is truncated to the 22nd only. Not sure if "7 VCs after tea" has quite the same ring to it ... Smile

Peter

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:05 pm

Peter,

You mean nine VCs before breakast!! What a daft game! Laughing

M

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:37 pm

M

2 after lunch at Sothondose's & 7 after tea, surely? (Aye, daft it is, too!) Wink

P.

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:57 pm

Without any reference books immediately to hand, Julian - were all fifteen VCs awarded for Big Boys Inkerman on 5 Nov because there was a 'Little Inkerman' a couple of days (?) beforehand, which I think I am right to say is regarded as the Russian recce for the subsequent big push of 5 Nov. Are the fifteen VCs split between the 2 actions perhaps?

M

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:16 pm

Try this - http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/VCs.htm - (Not sure how far this site can be trusted though Wink

) [There I used one!]

By the way Mike, I've always thought that the seemingly forgotten part of the RRW (41st) deserved a book dedicated to their grueling experiences that day, any chance of your stringing together a few lunch hours and putting one out? [Sorry one's my limit!]

MAB

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:09 pm

Michael

Funny you should ask that.... I am doing a new paired set for Greenhill, the first of which is about 2/3 finished. The second of them, for which I have not yet done all the research, is currently plotted to have an Inkerman chapter and I thought the fight around the Sandbag Battery would make an interesting setpiece. As yet though I am unclear on the availability of good primary sources. Colonel Patrick Mercer, who I used to work with, but is now a politician, did a very good Inkerman book I recall. He was always very much into the Crimea.

There is nothing 'forgotten' about the 41st by the way. As a matter of interest I am currently running a project to replace the old regimental museums of the 41st and the Queens Dragoon Guards at Cardiff Castle with a new shiny joint exhibition which is worthy of the capital city of Wales. Its very exciting in scope and we hope to make a lot more military history available to the general public with the project. Do you or any of your friends have �1.4M to spare - you don't know Bill Gates by any chance do you? Hey but - don't anybody rush over to Caridff to see it just yet because it won't be ready for a couple of years. We are hoping for autumn 07/spring 08.

Regards as ever

Mike