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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 956
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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I fear the second Battle of Isandlwana is already lost.

JY
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Alan
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1371
Location: Wales
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John,

in which case what about a second Rorke's Drift?

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Rob Oats


Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Devon, UK
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As someone born and raised in Africa and a descendant of early Natal settlers I am not surprised by these developments. My great uncle was with the Natal Carbineers and the youngest colonial serviceman killed there.

From a wider political perspective many in the UK establishment view Colonialism as the "evil adventures of the Victorian era". They wish to distance themselves from colonial wars like the Anglo/Zulu War.

Recently there has been a major assault on Cecil Rhodes and his removal from all history. We are in an era of "post truth" where history is being re-written to suit the post colonial era. The fact that vast wealth was generated from mining associated with Rhodes and his companies becomes irrelevant.

The "African awakening" is using this "culture" in the UK to drive the agenda of oppression. These same people in the UK see the men killed at Isandlwana as the tools of "oppression".

Anyone have any connections with Prince Charles and able to enlist his services on this matter?
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Colin


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 93
Location: U.K.
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Contact with any of the Royal Family would I think only be managed through representation by Parliament, possibly after numerous debates in the Commons, politics is not my forte though, not sure how it works.

Is our history being gradually erased ?
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 956
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Colin,

You can address concerns to members of the Royal Family without the need to go through any elected representatives.

The contact addresses appear on https://www.royal.uk/contact

JY
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Alan
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1371
Location: Wales
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Colin, not erased but vilified so that it won't be mentioned in polite company.

Rob, you make good points. Maybe the current head of the Army or the Colonel of The Royal Welsh.
Problem is that these people are avoiding anything which will appear to glorify past colonial activity.

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Rob Oats


Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Devon, UK
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Alan wrote:
Colin, not erased but vilified so that it won't be mentioned in polite company.

Rob, you make good points. Maybe the current head of the Army or the Colonel of The Royal Welsh.
Problem is that these people are avoiding anything which will appear to glorify past colonial activity.


I specifically mentioned Prince Charles, as you may remember that he has connections to Buthelezi of the IFP. Buthelezi is a (disputed) member of the Zulu Royal family and has in the past been very supportive of the neutral commemoration of the Battle of Isandlwana. One of his ancestors was an Induna at Isandlwana.
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Colin


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 93
Location: U.K.
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Thanks John.

A single voice in such would be like a grain of sand in a desert, however, if there was a sort of collective or group to represent, it may be heard.

Even if such a group was newly formed specifically for this, consisting of all the AZW Community - authors, historians, enthusiasts, descendants of those killed, etc. - to present the case for consideration at the highest level.

Finding of the best spokesperson to represent them, preferably good at speaking and letter-writing.
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Colin


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 93
Location: U.K.
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Rob - yes, I understood your mention of Prince Charles, who definitely would be of the greatest assistance in putting forward an argument, or preferably, a suggestion for positive alternatives.

I'm curious to know if anyone from the UK - Zulu War Group, politician or otherwise, have written to counter this development in a newspaper or magazine, or considered an appearance on television ?

Nobody will know of this outside of those most interested, unless it presented directly to the general public.
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 956
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Colin,

There have been articles regarding this subject published in both U.K. and South African newspapers.

A number of the Zulu War community have expressed their concerns, but as yet to no avail.

I have addressed the matter to representatives of both the KwaZulu-Natal Provincial and South African National Governments. Alan can say what reaction I received from a representative of the South African Department of Arts & Culture, as he was present when gave an address in Brecon.

I have also mentioned my concerns to two members of the Cabinet in this country.

Rob,

Through my own contacts with the Zulu Royal House the concerns were broached to Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, hopefully I will receive further information this month as to the outcome. Sadly my greatest ally within the Royal House died last year. He had previously suggested building a similar interpretation centre at Mangeni Falls, but the idea was dismissed out of hand by the Department of Transport in KZN due the funding needed to build a road to Mangeni.

John
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Colin


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 93
Location: U.K.
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John - sounds like the contacting of the BBC, etc., might be in the offing, with the suggestion of this for a story in the main news, perhaps presented from the location at Isandhlwana to visibly show its impact on the landscape of the battlefield ?

An interview with a historian too ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/39710394
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Rob Oats


Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Devon, UK
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Unlike the UK, South Africans are protected by a Constitution. If this project contravenes the provisions contained in the Constitution then any SA citizen is empowered to bring an appeal to the Constitutional Court. The Constitutional Court has the power to overrule any Legistlation/project that violates the rights of any citizen.
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dodgermuk


Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 38
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I cannot help but think this is an issue the UK government do not want to get involved in because the battle is persistently referred to and documented as one of Britain's worst military disasters and therefore it is something the government would gladly let go away quietly now given the chance.
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Colin


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 93
Location: U.K.
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I think the fact the dead are still buried there under the cairns and memorials, makes it not just a battleground, but a military graveyard, so it is encroaching on where they lie is of great concern, if the history itself is gradually 'faded out'.

My greatest concern, if this continues, that all the dead in the outlying cairns, even within the perimeter of the battlefield boundary, are eventually exhumed, all of the remains buried in one place on the battlefield as a 'contained' cemetery near the mountain and larger memorial locations, or even removed from the whole battlefield and placed in a cemetery like Fort Napier, etc., only the battlefield memorials/monuments left, individually protected in their own space with low metal fences, to be built up to and around, merged into any more future developments.

Therefore, it may be the case that this immediate development can't be prevented, but doesn't mean actions can't be taken to prevent this possible future nightmare scenario.

It would have to start now, before any more plans are drawn up
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 956
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Colin,

The proposed building and the future considered developments are outside of the designated battlefield area which is protected by AMAFA. For details of their purpose see https://www.heritagekzn.co.za

John
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Politics around Isandlwana
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