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Sawubona
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 |
Posts: 1179 |
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:47 am |
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What to you think, Peter, would it have been better to use "afore" instead of "before"? "Ramparts" or "Rampart"? Still, I left out the parenthetical line, which after all, is the point of the poem. How about this:
There's 'er nick on the cavalry 'orses,
There's 'er mark on the medical stores --
And 'er sign on the sacks that 'ave broken our backs
Which we slung on the ramparts before.
(Defend us from what went before)
It's got a nice play on "defend" and a rather good play on "before" (before the actual attack on the Drift or before at Isandlwana?) Lord, am I channeling Kipling?
"Fuzzy Wuzzy" pushes my buttons, but "Widow of Winsdor" is excellent as well. After all, Kipling is from my home state, New Hampshire, isn't he?
Still, no better or more British Imperial poetry lines have ever been written than:
Take 'old o' the Wings o' the Mornin',
An' flop round the earth till you're dead;
But you won't get away from the tune that they play
To the bloomin' old rag over'ead.
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Last edited by Sawubona on Thu May 17, 2012 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Peter Ewart
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 |
Posts: 1797 |
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England. |
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:26 am |
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Saw/Kiwi
Yes, it's possible he would never have left America had not the Balestier business hounded him out. He was happier there than anywhere save India. He nearly died there, lost his first-born there and wrote some of his best work in Naulakha, including The Jungle Book, which was read to the children of Vemont before any English children heard it. Without that crazy feud we may never have heard of Bateman's or read any of the wonderful Sussex poetry by the great man.
Agree 100% on those lines from The Widow at Windsor, Saw. Two or three times a year I find myself reading extracts from his verse to audiences here and I never omit those particular lines. Just as powerful in other ways, perhaps (and indicative of his prescient mind, as well as his constant warnings against flabby contentment or the vicarious sense of power he saw in so many in England) might be these well known lines from Recessional (1897):
"Far-called, our navies melt away;
On dune and headland sinks the fire:
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!"
And this at the height of the celebrations and boasting at the time of the Diamond Jubilee. He must have read Ozymandias the night before he penned Recessional!
Your further example is even more perfect! Stick with before and ramparts is fine (as also would be the singular).
There is not a moment or an occurrence in the life of a British soldier at that time, doing seven years with the Colours and five on the Reserve, whether in home barracks, on troopship, in India or S Africa, in action or in peacetime, that isn't covered in a verse by Kipling. The extract you chose from The Widow at Windsor encapsulates the whole lot. Yet - always despising those at home who thought the Empire a God-given right - still he warned.
Peter
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Sawubona
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 |
Posts: 1179 |
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:43 am |
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Well done, Peter! I wasn't confident that you'd catch that one as it flew by and for that disservice I apologize . Sorry, but I can't resist but to ask that if among your rather distinguished forebears were there any Johnnies who knelt by Wolfe at Quebec? And were they made colonels?
"Johnnies" are Scots, aren't they? As in "Heya Johnnie, drink-water you got it (Drums of the Fore and Aft)?" And is that line from ZULU, "my grandfather, he was the Johnnie who knelt by Wolfe at Quebec", simply derivative of that famous Benjamin West painting of Wolfe's death at Quebec (he's not quite knelling, but isn't the standing figure to the right wearing a Scottish uniform" )? "John" isn't a particularly Scottish name, so why the sobriquet? Shouldn't it instead be something like "Ian"? Is a Yank wrong to think that Johnnie is to Scot as Paddy is to Irish? And I apologize in advance for any offense I may have unknowingly given to anyone.
No matter how hard I look, however, I can't find any mealie bags in that painting! Am I perhaps a bit off topic?
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Peter Ewart
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 |
Posts: 1797 |
Location: Near Canterbury, Kent, England. |
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:51 pm |
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Saw
I'm not sure why Bromhead (Caine) referred to his ancestor as "the Johnny" - I always wondered whether he simply meant "the chap" or "the fellow" but there may be a reason which has always escaped me. Anyone?
Definitely not a reference to a Scot, I'd say. As Robert points out, all Scots are Jocks, both as a third party description (e.g "England are playing the Jocks at football today") or as a personal nickname (e.g. "Good to see you Jock, how are you?"), often whether one knows his real first name or not. Occasionally "Mac" too, regardless of surname. (I don't know what the Jocks call each other, but presumably not Jock!!!) My father, John, a Glaswegian more or less, was certainly known as Jock throughout his army career, but presumably wouldn't have been had he served in a Scottish regiment!
Similarly, I don't remember calling my Welsh brother-in-law Mike at any time (or perhaps only rarely) as he'll always be Taffy or Taff. Somehow, native caution might make me hesitate to call an Irishman Paddy until I knew him, although I'd expect to do so pretty soon.
However, I do detect a slight falling off of these epithets, especially among the young, which is a pity really, but they are often confused by the hammering that their generation has taken on "political correctness", and nowadays tend to eschew all "national" nicknames on the grounds of "playing safe." How daft. Genuinely offensive expressions have been completely mixed up with age-old terms of endearment. I'd be disappointed if an Aussie felt he could no longer call me a "Pommie b.....d." Or at least a Pom! Even personal nicknames among playground friends based upon physical appearance seem no longer favoured by the young - can you believe that? So no "shorty", "lofty", "long 'un" or" titch" any more. Apparently even "Ginger" is frowned upon sometimes, which I find incomprehensible - my young sons have to guide me carefully sometimes!
Off topic? Probably just a slight metamorphosis!
Peter
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