rorkesdriftvc.com :: View topic - The inscription on Henry Hook's headstone

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:04 pm

As you know, the restored inscription on the memorial headstone of Henry Hook, VC at Churcham reads as follows:

If our time is come, let us die manfully for our brethrens sake, and not have a cause of reproach against our glory: 1 Mace IX. 10

The source of the inscription is, of course, the First Book of Maccabees. But which translation? The King James (a.k.a. the Authorised Version) would presumably have been the obvious choice. Although Maccabees 1 and 2 were considered apocryphal by the translators who produced the Authorised Version, the Apocrypha (known as the Deutero-Canonical Books in the Roman Catholic tradition) were in fact included in the original KJV, sandwiched between the Old Testament and the New, it being considered that they provided useful historical material. But they were not intended to be read in church; in 1571, the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England had specifically stated:

[...] the other bookes (as Hierome sayeth), the Churche doth reade for example of life and instruction of manners: but yet doth it not applie them to establish any doctrene.

And following the Hampton Court Conference of 1604, it was affirmed that:

The Apocrypha, that hath some repugnancy to the canonical scriptures, shall not be read [...]

As a result, the Apocrypha began to be omitted from print runs of the Authorized Version in 1629; and by 1825, following a long campaign by Puritans and Presbyterians, they were omitted from all except pulpit bibles. The 17th century translation of the text in question, in modern orthography, is as follows:

if our time be come, let us die manfully for our brethren, and let us not stain our honour.

As you see, there are substantial differences between the printed translation of the KJV and the inscription on Hook's headstone. However, a similar (but partial) translation can be found in a window on the west side of the north aisle of St. Peter's Church, Harrogate, in memory of those who died in the Great War: "Let us die manfully for our brethren's sake". And interestingly, the Douay-Rheims Bible (translated in 1582 for the use of Roman Catholics and revised expensively until 1810) does use the word 'glory' instead of the KJV 'honour':

if our time be come, let us die manfully for our brethren, and let us not stain our glory.

So did whoever chose the text for Hook's memorial headstone work from a translation other than the Authorised Version - and if so, which? - or was the text quoted from fallible memory to those who made the headstone?

Any thoughts?

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:04 pm

I love a good mystery, Paul! After a couple of false starts, I searched for "reproach against our glory" and came up with quite a few example of that exact phrase, the first example listed being in the ebook:

"The First Book of Maccabees with introduction and notes" edited by John Sutherland Black and William Fairweather.

Apparently the editors of the above book which contains that particular phrasing used "The Cambridge Bible For Schools and Colleges" as their text as did whoever inscribed the memorial.

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:39 pm

I'm certainly no Bible scholar and it's a bit early here Stateside for theological study ! That said, I "googled" this translation (""The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges") and learned that the general editor of the same was one John Perowne (1823-1904), late bishop of Worcester and "a respected Hebrew scholar of the traditional type" who "sat on the Old Testament Revision Committee". Hook, being a lay preacher at the time, would surely have been familiar with this particular translation. Whether he would have favored it over another is anybody's guess.

Right, I've done my bit! Smile

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:06 pm

Nice work, Sawubona: thanks. This may be the book I was looking for:

http://www.archive.org/stream/cambridgebiblefo54pero#page/n7/mode/2up

For Hook (presumably, or someone close to the family) to choose an alternative translation from an apocryphal book as his epitaph suggests that he was both a diligent and a discerning reader. Which, of course, comes as no surprise.

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:28 pm

That's the same book I found, Paul, but your site certainly has a more appropriate copy! Serendipity rears her head with that vintage (1897) printing. It's off your thread a mite, but I have to add that the fairly human female voice reading the text while each line is highlighted is a nice touch. The inflection and pronunciation is slightly off that of a "real" person, but it's impressive none-the-less.

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:22 pm

As I feel sure 'Coll' will enjoy that extract from Maccabees also forms part of the several quotes underneath the Durnford memorial window in Rochester Cathedral.
Unfortunately (as I recall from failing memory), in Latin, but most often translated using the King James version of the Apocrypha as:
"God forbid that I should do this thing and flee away from them; if our time be come, let us die manfully for our brethren, and let us not stain our honour."
This refers to the situation in which Judas Maccabeus, opposed with his small force of 800 men the army of Bacchides and Alcimus 22,000 strong.
A further quote also forms part of the inscription, referring to the death of Judas: " Judas also was killed and the remnant fled," 1 Maccabees ix. 18.
Beneath all three panels is the (English) inscription, "To the glory of God, and in memory of Colonel A. W. Durnford, Royal Engineers, who was killed in action at Isandlwana, South Africa, this window is dedicated by the Corps of Royal Engineers. Faithful unto death."

G

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:05 pm

Galloglas:

Not sure which Latin text they would have used, but the Vulgate has that text as follows:

absit istam rem facere ut fugiamus ab eis et si adpropiavit tempus nostrum moriamur in virtute propter fratres nostros et non inferamus crimen gloriae nostrae.

Would any, or perhaps all of that, be the inscription on the Durnford window in Rochester Cathedral?

Curious that both Hook and Durnford are remembered by the same apocryphal quote.

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:32 pm

This is amost under that wonderful heading known as:

"In the working men's clubs of Barnsley, we talk of little else".

The inscriptions under the Durnford window, and that of TRA Henn its companion piece, are let into the stone face in a form of mosaic. They are thus in any case very difficult to read from floor level, though I do distinctly (and not necessarily rightly) recall them being in Latin, except for the parts below that name the two individuals being commemorated.

Apart from that, you have the (linguistic) advantage of me.

G

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:22 pm

Sorry, I should explain the allusion for 'those overseas'. The basic joke exists in many forms, but includes:

"Mr. O'Connell, has your client never heard the expression sic utere tuo ut alienum non laedas?"
"M'Lud, in the remote fishing village in County Kerry where my client lives, they speak of little else.

G[/i]

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:45 am

I visited Churcham yesterday, and was puzzled by some of the inscriptions on the headstone.

Firstly (and, I guess, referring to his final rank) it mentions "Sergeant, 1st VBRF".

Secondly, when giving details of the regiments that contributed to the erection of the headstone, it lists: "A & B Cos 1st CFLV (or CPLV)", "1st VBRF" and "A & B Cos 2nd VBGR".

Can anyone tell me who these were and if they're still in existence, please?

Thank you!

Confused

but still

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:58 pm

They are (probably) based upon the titles used by Volunteer Battalions (VBs) either before the Childers reforms of 1881 or - later- in designating the Battalions that joined the Territorial Force in 1908.

The 'Childers' detail appears to be supplied here, though does not include the answer to your query. I include it simply to enable some screening out of detail that simply might not apply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childers_Reforms

Best therefore to await the avalanche of people more knowledgeable than I who should now leap forward.

Some might refer to early units of the 1859-60 rifle volunteer movement, possibly including some of those that were not later officially recognised. There were also other local volunteer units raised in the 1790s.The dates on the gravestones will therefore be a very important clue.

G

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:00 pm

Scorer

The 1st Volunteer Battalion, Royal Fusiliers answers one of the sets of initials and I dare say Barry Johnson's superb Hook of Rorke's Drift (which I have but can't reach at the moment) comes up with all the others. I recall reading Johnson's fascinating account of Hook's Volunteer service, both before and after his 24th service, and one of the sets of initials may relate to a successor unit to the Bloomsbury Rifles.

As Galloglas suggests, an avalanche is no doubt set to jump in and provide chapter & verse - but I'm sure Barry Johnson has the answer. (I also have a feeling that these units have been covered before somewhere here when discussing the new stone but I can't find it at present, despite searching).

Peter

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:58 pm

I feel you are going to need some help'

A Company - based at Gloucester Docks, and B Company in the City were in 1880 formed from 2rd and 3rd Corps respectively of 1st Admin Bn Gloucestershire Rifle Volunteers - as part of the 2nd Gloucester Rifle Volunteer Corps. The initials 1st CRLV are clearly wrong. In 1883 the Corps was renamed 2nd Volunteer Battalion The Gloucestershire Regiment (still with A and B Companies in Gloucester). The initials 2nd VBGR are therefore correct.

However my notes......................

The headstone = At the head of the grave a white marble cross standing 6ft on a Forest Stone base & kerb.
A large wreath of laurels suspended from a ring of ribbon, in the centre of the cross a reproduction Victoria Cross 7ins across.
2nd S.W.B. = 2nd Battalion South Wales Borderers (24th Regiment)
1st G.R.E.V. = 1st Gloucester Royal Engineers Volunteers
1st V.B.R.F. = 1st Volunteer Battalion Royal Fusiliers
2nd V.B.G.R. = 2nd Volunteer Battalion Gloucestershire Regiment
The text at the bottom comes from I. Maccabees., ix., 10.
Restoration in 2008 gave abbreviations 1st G.R.E.V. as 1st C.R.L.V. and as �MACE� when it is thought the original engraving was �MACC�

Cost in 1906 �20-8s-7d. (Equivalent to �20.43)
Unveiled 22nd September 1906
Last restored between late 1959 � and January 1962 by the S.W.B.
Rededicated after cleaning 3rd September 2005. Restored again in 2008
Note: Hook was never a Corporal in the South Wales Borderers

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:29 pm

Thank you everyone, for your help with this - it's very much appreciated.

Smile

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:15 pm

Martin

The original engraving would undoubtedly have read Macc: then as now, that was the conventional abbreviation for the apocryphal biblical work in question. Hook would have known that well.