McDowel's "cairn" and the booklet on Rorke's Drift |
The cairn in the Manzimyama |
Johnny Hamman
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I have just read the old part of the discussion forum again where Julian explained the cairn in the Manzimyama crossing and the Macdowel tale, and it ties in rather nicely with the record of George Chadwick explaining about the cairns washing away and being restacked, or remains gathered and reburied in the late 1950�s, or possibly even before that.
However, Philip Gon (The Road to Isandlwana, 1979) has Anstey on the road behind � west � of Isandlwana, retreating down the Rorke�s Drift road and coming to grief a few hundred yards to the river bank, whereas Ian Knight (The Zulu War � Then and Now) has them about two miles down the Manzimyama valley on the Fugitives� Trail, which sound more plausible. This cairn is too close to the camp and too far to the north to be connected with Anstey, if the story of his two mile fighting withdrawal is true. Could it be part of other F Coy men or even some of Shepstone�s mounted men? Wouldn�t Anstey have kept the men of F with him during the retreat? Greaves has him as a captain. I do not think this is correct. I am only asking, as Greaves made some glaring errors in his book, Isandlwana. (Like putting Younghusband in E Coy.) Robert Edgerton, (Like Lions they fought, 1988)as well as Ian Beckett (Isandlwana 1879, 2003 Brassey�s) also has Anstey in this position, two miles down the valley. I could not find any mention of him in Rattray�s book, but I was not looking closely anymore. Johnny Hamman |
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Jamie
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I hope this link works.
http://www.isandlwana1879.co.uk/isandlwana_battlefield.htm Scroll down for a photo. Jamie |
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Johnny Hamman
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It worked Jamie,
I have seen the site before, and it is wrong. There is no evidence of an engineer party working on the road just before the battle. There was no engineers at Isandlwana as far as I know. Johnny |
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mike snook 2
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Johnny,
Apart from the four men dropped off by Chard on the morning of the battle. Regards Mike |
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diagralex
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Johnny
There were four Royal engineers at Isandlwana - Corporal Gamble and Sappers Cuthbert, MacLaren and Wheatley, all forming part of the advance party of 5th field company. They were all killed during the battle. I cannot find out where they may have been based during the morning of the 22nd though. Regards Graham |
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John Young
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Graham,
That's easy they were at Rorke's Drift with John Chard on the morning of the 22nd. They were being transported to Isandlwana, when John Chard was on his return leg having clarified the position as to his own responsibilities. He ordered them off of the wagon and returned with it to the Mission Station. The four R.E.'s fell-in with Durnford's part column and made their way to Isandlwana and their fate. There was another R.E. other-rank killed at Isandlwana - 2nd Corp. Mansfield, who may well have been Durnford's batman. Regards, John Y. |
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diagralex
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Thanks John
I knew that I should have asked you in the first place !! Did they draw the short straw or not ? Graham |
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Johnny Hamman
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Thanks for those names, guys. Appreciate it. I should have made myself clearer in that last paragraph. I did not know of any engineer other ranks except Chard and MacDowel, Graham.
What I should have said was that that I do not think there was an engineer party working on the Manzimyama crossing on the morning of the battle, and definitely not under MacDowel's command. There was some reference on the old forum about MacDowel being found by Black's burial party, among the tents. is this correct? Johnny |
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Julian whybra
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Mansfield was indeed Durnford's batman.
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Johnny Hamman
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Hang on a mo there, I am trying to get a handle on this issue. We know that there were no engineers working on the track on the western side of Isandlwana. We also know that Chard rode up to deliver some of his engineers to the camp at Isandlwana. He had five men following him, with their equipment and a wagon. Ian Beckett, on page 51 in his book Isandlwana 1879 (Battles in Focus series) mentioned that he left four of his men to continue onwards, and returned with the wagon to Rorke�s Drift with his batman, driver Edward Robson. He also mentioned this man in his report. (See p. 66, The Zulu war, Then and Now, by Ian Knight and Ian Castle) Who is Mansfield now?
Johnny Hamman |
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John Young
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Johnny.
As Julian points out he is Durnford's batman, part of No. 2 Column, from 7th(Field) Company R.E. The other R.E. other-ranks were from 5th(Field) Company, and were part of No. 3 Column. John Y. |
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Johnny Hamman
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Then where does Robson fit in, and why does Chard refer to him as his batman?
Johnny Hamman |
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John Young
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Johnny,
Driver Charles John Robson, of 5th (Field) Co. R.E., was Chard's soldier servant - his batman. Does that fit in? John Y. |
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Johnny Hamman
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Well, it certainly does now, John Young.
I have been reading Chard where I should have read Durnford. I have been checking the old postings and realised a minute ago that I am making a fool of myself. Mansfield is Durnford's batman, and Robson is Chard's. That does sound better. I was under the impression that you were referring to Mansfield as Chard's batman. Johnny Hamman Dundee KZN South Africa |
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McDowel's "cairn" and the booklet on Rorke's Drift |
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