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ZULU- The War Flick to End All War Flicks?
Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
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Has there been a previous thread here about the anti-war undercurrent in ZULU or am I the only one who fancies it's even there? Was Baker, Enfield or Prebble ever associated with such sentiments? Or is ZULU just a rousing war flick without any agenda?

"Do you think I could stand this butcher's yard more than once?"
"Because we're here, Lad. No one else. Just us."
And the classic exit line: "Why?"

I came of age in the late Sixties here in the States which was (of course) during our divisive Vietnam War, so admittedly I may be overly sensitized. As Montague said "Some people see nudity in the crotch of every tree" Shocked
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rich


Joined: 01 May 2008
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That's an interesting point. I personally never interpreted "Zulu" as an anti-war film. If we take a look at the film I don't think it glorifies war mongering as just showing how men steel themselves to fight in battle dealing either with the assegai or MH bullets. Endfield's film sure looked like it respected both the Zulu and British fighting man.

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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
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"'Hold our ground!' What genius thought that up? Somebody's son and heir who got his commission before he learned how to shave?"

It seems to me that ZULU presents War as being a less than noble venue in which to test the capacity in Man to face and overcome adversity. Isn't the utter futility of War the dominant theme throughout the movie? And isn't that theme reinforced by the fact that there are no "bad guys" in the movie? In the stereotypical "war flick" (at least by my definition) the good guys might just as well wear white hats as their uniforms. On the other hand, if I had to chose a quote to describe how ZULU presents War it would have to be:

"War doesn't determine who's Right, only who's Left". Wink

It's just a thought I had back in '65 when I first saw the film--and a thought that has stayed with me and hasn't yet changed with the years and viewings.
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rich


Joined: 01 May 2008
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saw...

You know I saw "The Pacific" recently and Sledge's book was mentioned, "With the Old Breed". I picked it up. Yes, you're so right, maybe war isn't so noble when they're down and dirty but when you're in it life can be brutal and the inanity of what man does to man is just heightened to the nth degree..and and you've got to deal with what you've been given. Sledge's book I think is must-reading about war.

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Peter Ewart


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Saw

I agree. I'm sure the producers intended to convey an anti-war message and there were plenty of examples in the script to suggest this. One of the Taffies (Ivor Emmanuel or one of the others) was not impressed by the claimed Zulu martial qualities when Schiess warned him of their abiltiy to run 40 miles in a day and fight a battle at the end of it. "There's [or is it theirs?] daft it is then; why would you want to run to fight a battle?" (or some such). In other words, the ordinary poor man is not interested in fighting wars, only his masters are.

Another in this category might be Hook's - admittedly almost rhetorical - question: "What do I want to fight the Zulus for? Did I ever see a Zulu walk down the City road?" No!" To me, there is not much difference in this from saying "I'm a member of the Peace Society and I don't believe in the people of different countries fighting each other simply because their masters order it." ("Workers of the world unite" and all that). I can't be the only one who thinks these lines in the script are accidental? It's just that one wouldn't necessarily expect them to come from the mouth of Tommy Atkins!

Other remarks might suggest anti-imperialism, anti-class distinction, light-hearted and subtle anti-Englishness, and even anti-racism (what a time and place to suggest such a message!!!) "And who do you think is coming to wipe out your little [something or other], the Grenadier Guards?" Plus a few other Adendorff asides about that country and its people with Chard & vice versa. This all smacks very much of the '60s anti-war trend - but, curiously, of the late '60s rather than the early '60s, when standard "them & us" goody & baddy films had still been in vogue. Can we see Baker's (and why not Burton's too?) tough and proud South Wales background coming out here? I think I can.

The little dialogue at the end between Adendorff and Bromhead, when they collapse in laughter after Adendorff wonders why it all matters, also suggests that all this killing is futile. However, those lines pointed out by you in your first post, Saw, are by far the most powerful, especially the first and third - the second could also be construed (and would by most, I think) as a bit of under-stated British Army steadfast acceptance of fate - we're here & we've got to get on with it.

This was also the period when a number of shoddily researched books and plays in this country were produced highlighting the futility of the fighting in WW1 (but not WW2) and the betrayal of millions of working class soldiers by arrogant and ignorant aristocratic generals - a nonsense which took over 30 years to eradicate and which probably still persists in popular culture.

Yes, it was, I'm sure, intended to be a film with a powerful anti-war message - but that's not easy when mixing it with such dramatic action, colourful spectacle and the extolling of bravery and patriotism - the latter largely still valued in the cinema-going public less than 20 years after the last war.

Peter
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Sheldon Hall


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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Yes to all the above!
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rich


Joined: 01 May 2008
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Let's see ..the date on Zulu is '64. I'd love to see the stat books on military recruitment in the army or the armed services in Britain then. I'd theorize that the film could have made a big impact with things military and sign-ups may have had possibly a blip up. Yes? No? "Zulu" too powerful with it's anti-war message? But regardless, there's certainly alot of pride in that film as to what a British soldier can do when he has his back to a wall. I'd figure anyone j'inin' up would love to bask in some of that glory.

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margaret mcfarlane


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Hi everyone,
How about 'I am sad to see so many brides who may soon be widows.'? An anti-war statement and one which acknowledges the effect of war on the families and wider society.
Best Wishes,
Margaret McFarlane
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rich


Joined: 01 May 2008
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Yes and I'll mention the recent film "The Messenger" which explores the repercussions of war on those who deliver terrible information and those who have to deal with the effects.

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johnk


Joined: 18 Oct 2010
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just as an aside to the main thread, and my apologies for this, I read recently that Zulu has been voted the best war film by our armed forces in Afghanistan

johnk
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Mel


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Agree with all of the above. "Zulu" also demonstrated the naiveity of the British soldier in that period. "Why us?" " "Because we're here lad. There's no one else. Just us. You get your shilling to do a job. Just do it. You don't need to know why." (OK. I've added a bit there)
Above all though, the film shows the fultility of it all. Reminds me of the final scene in "The Magnificent Seven" where Chris (after the seven have defeated 40 bandits) says "The old man was right. Only the farmers won. We lost. We'll always lose."

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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
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And equally off the thread.... The Messenger was a most excellent and seriously unsung movie! Don't you think so, Rich? Cynical product of the Sixties that I am, I was actually overwhelmed with patriotic pride while watching it. The scene where they're climbing the mountain road when the other motorists turn on their headlights actually kinda choked me up, but there were so many other seriously moving scenes as well.

And that's a good one too, Margaret!
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margaret mcfarlane


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Hi everyone,
I shall certainly try and see the Messenger after your interesting posts, it sounds like my kind of war film - not many are. Mel, I agree with your comment about the Magnificent Seven but found the end of The Seven Samurai even more heart-rending.
Best Wishes,
Margaret
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rich


Joined: 01 May 2008
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Location: Long Island NY USA
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The Messenger was a most excellent and seriously unsung movie! Don't you think so, Rich?

Powerful movie and it was a kind of look into the repercussions of the scene in Saving Private Ryan where we see the those from the military driving up to the farm to give the mother the terrible news about her son...then you see her drop to the ground in great grief. It affected me very much. I don't know if I could do what the ACNS unit did. It's a difficult responsibility.

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rich


Joined: 01 May 2008
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So Saw ye child of the 60's are you perhaps still cynical about war? Can you agree that sometimes war is the only way out? I would've loved to have been at the Zulu high command's meeting where they made the fateful decision to go to war against the British. I'm sure they knew war was hell but they knew deep down that was the only response considering the situation.

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ZULU- The War Flick to End All War Flicks?
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