rorkesdriftvc.com :: View topic

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:51 pm

Hi Forum

Just a note to draw your collective attentions to a piece in today's Times (page 1 Cool

about the Royal British Legion's plans to honour Cpl Scheiss. I notice they're still working on 139 as the number of defenders but most other facts seem correct. There is also an invitation to view reports on RD from the Times archives at www.thetimes.co.uk/archive

Regards

paul whitehead

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:53 pm

Don't know how that smiley got there - it should read page 18

P.W.

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:36 pm

The 24th Regiment will be represented at the ceremony in Geneva. On more personal note - I would very much like to see this VC in Geneva as it was actually awarded to a Swiss citizen. That might provoke discussion - as the NAM only hold it by default. A touch of Elgin Marbles

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:50 am

In broad terms, the VC medal should have been returned to the Army Medal Office after Schiess's death at sea.

Technically, in the strictly formal sense, they are not supposed to be items of disposable property where the purpose of disposal is financial gain.

Switzerland, as a poltical entity and sovereign state would have no lien on this VC.

G

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:02 pm

Though different contemporary language was used, the QRs of those days embodied the principal still carried forward today - except where the Warrant for a particular award might state otherwise.

Namely, that:

"It will be for the regimental or corps headquarters of the deceased to contact the legal beneficiary of the medals once they have been received from the MOD Medal Office where they will have been mounted and placed in a presentation box before dispatch. It is the responsibility of the regimental or corps headquarters to make arrangements in accordance with the wishes of the deceased's family for suitable presentation of themedals. The recipient must be the legal beneficiary and no one else. The alternative will, of course, remain of sending the medal on by post should the beneficiary prefer this."

However, in the absence of a designated legal beneficiary, there was not discretion allowing for one to be assumed or designated on an ad hoc basis. So, the medal would be retained in the interim by the Medal Office. I can only assume that the NAM has it on loan.
Happy to be wrong, if somebody else knows the answer better.
G

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:38 pm

Saw the original piece in The Times but was surprised to see it representing the research as new, as there was nothing in the report about Schiess's privations, illness or death which was at all new - even the exact spot of his burial at sea is known. However, I'd put this down to enthusiastic reporting rather than any claims on behalf of the chap seeking to raise his profile in Switzerland.

The "Thunderer" is not a patch on what it was, that's for sure. Presumably, if he'd tried to get home via the Swiss Navy instead of ours, the VC might be residing in Switzerland to this day?

P.

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:39 pm

Cpl Scheiss died at sea being brought to England by the Royal Navy. The VC was found in a bureau in the old War Office building and passed to the NAM. It is my view that times have moved on.

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:25 pm

Indeed they have. So, back to the MOD Medal Office then...........

Unless a cuckoo clock is to be offered in part exchange?

G

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:39 pm

Just in case anybody was wondering:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ch-sea.html

G

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:59 am

The times should also have written Schiess not Scheiss. One letter different I know but the world of difference in that language.

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:47 am

Julian

What a very interesting point you raise! Since I am unable to call up the archive using the link above, I have been unable to see the offending spelling. However, my interest is based on the 'double s' in the word 'Scheiss' since these occurrences are usually replaced by a 'scharfes S' or the character �. I therefore immediately fled to Wikipedia, which gave me the following gem. Had I known this to be the case, I would never have questioned your spelling!

"The German esszett ligature (also called the scharfes s (sharp s)), � evolved from the ligature "long s over round s" or, in Fraktur, "long s and z". Even though "long s" ſ has otherwise disappeared from German orthography, � is still considered a ligature, and is replaced by 'SS' in capitalized spelling and in alphabetic ordering. � is only used in Germany and Austria, never in Switzerland."

My emphasis!

KIS

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:08 pm

And of course, the unfortunate inversion of the two vowels turns his name into something less than complimentary ...

Embarassed

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:22 pm

Das ist aber Schiess.
Stimmt!

G

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:14 pm

Genau!