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Adams versus Colt ?
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Reading an interesting article in a recent gun magazine about the apparent competition between these two gunmakers.

The story goes, that Colt was giving a lecture about his own revolver, when Adams stood up, giving a counter-lecture about his revolver.

It continues, that Colt, eventually closed down his British factory.

Anyone know of this and any sources where this competitive nature of both men, is explored more in-depth ?

Thankyou

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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
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Although that story about Colt's lecture has be circulating for many years, the general consensus is that it's apocryphal and never really happened, Coll. There's no doubt that their relationship was acrimonious, but I'd hazard that the was simply because they were both very opinionated and confident businessmen on opposite sides of the single versus double action pistol debate. It reminds me somewhat of the war between Edison and Westinghouse that likewise continued for years and years over the merits of AC power. The smell of huge profits can bring out a nasty side in even the gentlest soul and both Colt and Adams were two ruthless profiteers (read "successful businessmen") dealing in a product with a single violent purpose.

G.A. Custer himself seemed to prefer the double action revolvers and favored a pair of Webley RIC's at one point, but I don't know what he carried at the LBH. On the other hand, The Northwest Mounted Police, who I'd expect to be the "poster boys" for British sidearms, initially sought to issue 1851 Colt "Navy"'s, the same as was issued to all Canadian Militia at the time, and had to "settle" for the Adams as the ammunition was apparently more readily available for it.

My understanding is that the Colt, although slower to cock and fire, was the more simple and robust of the two and also somewhat more accurate, particularly at greater ranges.
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Sawubona

Thanks for your reply.

With you mentioning Custer's preference, was much like I was thinking at the time of reading it, but of Durnford's (apparent) preference being a Colt.

The small, but well-illustrated article, is in the September issue of 'Guns & Ammo' magazine.

I've got a huge volume about Colt's firearms, but yet to acquire one about Adams.

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Sawubona


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Interesting about Durnford and the Colt, Coll. Do you know which model he favored?
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Sawubona

The subject of Durnford's revolver, arose quite a while ago on the forum, but don't know of the source, where there was mention of his having a Colt revolver. No way, as yet, to confirm.

Meantime, I'm working on a (very) very thin theory, which goes, that if he didn't already have a Colt early 1870s, he may have opted for a different model (being a Colt), after the incident at Bushman's Pass, where he sustained the injury to his left arm, making it useless.

Having only the use of his right hand, made me wonder if he purchased a new revolver, which was more practical for him to load/unload, without difficulty, especially in a battlefield situation.

The best way to shorten the list of what he (may have) owned, is some kind of test, using Colts and Adams revolvers of the time, on a range, but only loading/unloading with the right hand, the left hand tucked in jacket, perhaps using the crook of this arm, or a waistbelt, to hold the revolver secure whilst performing these operations.

As you can see, my theory is somewhat 'out there', but logical, in a roundabout sort of way. Confused

I had hoped a document of some sort would have mentioned the actual model, whether a Colt or other make, but nothing so far.

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Adams Revolvers.
by Chamberlain & Taylerson.

I've seen this book on abe books, but prices are from � 150.00+

Does anyone have a copy and could it be termed the best book on this subject ?

Thanks

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AMB


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
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Coll,

Certainly an expensive book - interestingly found a firm in India selling it for �156, but no cheaper!

How about your local library?

AMB
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AMB

Yes. Quite a price, but seems to be the only book solely about Adams revolvers.

I'd like to own it, instead of borrowing from a library, as I'm very keen to study this firearm in-depth.

I'll have to wait a (long) while though.

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Sawubona


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Durnford's choice of firearm? I'm not familiar with the model of Webley introduced commercially in 1877, but it's described on the Net as a "top break, big bore, double action, simultaneous ejection revolver. If it's anything like the MK VI Webley, also with simultaneous ejection, this particular revolver ejects all of the spent casings when the gun is opened. It can easily be done on a MK VI with one hand (Yeah, I tried it) and I imagine that reloading it by cradling in the crook of a useless arm would be no more difficult than any other pistol. The double action feature would be a bonus advantage over a Colt.

Anyone know anything about pre-RIC Webleys of the late 1870's? Accurate? Reliable? Calibers?
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Sawubona

Yes. A break-opening revolver appears to be the most logical, but in my firearm book, no Webley models of this type are mentioned, prior to mid-late 1880s.

Another make with this function, perhaps ?

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PS. Burt gives a mini-demonstration of such a loading operation, using the crook of his left arm, in 'Zulu Dawn'.
Sawubona


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The "break open" Webley wasn't a "military" sidearm until the early 1880's, but it was available on the commercial market in the middle 1870's (or so I've read, although I've never seen or owned one).

A bit too late to look at Lancaster's scene in "Zulu Dawn" when he's on the wagon (so to speak), but I'm curious to see if he's visibly cocking his pistol with his thumb (single action) or simply pulling the trigger (double action). That might take some "zoom" and "slo-mo" to determine.
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Sawubona

Burt appears to be cocking the revolver initially, when standing on the ground, but this might have been for the close-up, rather than a necessity. On the wagon he doesn't do this, firing shot after shot.

Double-action is the conclusion.

Owning a Colt, seems to be a myth, as a Webley or other break-open revolver, is more likely, if not his first purchase, but obtained after Bushman's Pass.

I'll go the Webley path now.

Thanks for your replies.

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Adams versus Colt ?
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