rorkesdriftvc.com :: View topic

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:40 am

Surely Prof. John Laband cannot be left out ?

Robert

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:23 pm

In agreement there Robert.

You know now that we've got the Internet perhaps there could be some sort of what they call "web-meeting" either live or if that's not possible a link to the discussion after it's over? I've "attended" meetings like that and I've personally found that it works very well. After the presentations or discussions there's usually a question/answer session from the online audience.

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:02 pm

Rich

I've seen a similar facility used after documentaries on television.

Coll

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:10 pm

The latest 'what's On' for adults at the National Army Museum states:

Into Africa - Zulu War Panel Discussion
10 April 2010 5.30 pm

In 1879, The British Empire and the Zul Kingdom embarked upon a notoriously bloody war, one that would lead to a landmark in the history of colonialism. In this discussion leading authorities on the conflict, including well known author Ian Knight, discuss the complexities of the battles and debate the difficult decisions made by the British command during that time.

Tickets: �15 standard, �12.50 - concessions (SOFNAM/students/seniors/serive personnel)
www.national-army-museum.ac.uk
020 7881 6600

There are other African related events taking place over the weekend 10-11 April

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:43 pm

I'm hoping, now that such an excellent opportunity has arisen, that questions asked of the panel, are really given some thought.

As another event like this might not happen again for long enough.

Coll

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:28 am

These are to an extent thermometer events and it will be interesting to see how much support is drawn in.

The small venue and goodwill towards the main publically recognised participant in this instance is likely to ensure a customarily good-ish turnout but one senses that 'popular' interest in the Zulu War generally is fading and may continue to do so as people get bored with the films Zulu/Zulu Dawn and the cost of travelling to the historic sites continues to mount.

What's not very apparent is any new generation interest and this tends to be a subject popular with the nostalgic middle-aged rather than newly stimulated younger people.

Glad to be wrong on this, if indeed I am.

G

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:12 am

Galloglas

I'm hoping you are mistaken and that interest is still strong, or better still, getting stronger, including the addition of those from a younger generation.

That said, I've been trying to think of ways to make this campaign more available to a younger readership, with book suggestions, etc., but not obtained much in the way of feedback.

Needs somebody more recognised, I guess, name-wise, knowledge-wise, book-wise, to get such projects going, as a voice in the dark isn't exactly convincing to anyone - the public, as well as, the publishers.

Maybe during an event like this, such a question can be raised, as in, what the panel would suggest for making the campaign appeal more to a new generation.

Coll

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:01 am

Coll, I agree with you on this, and, personal experience has proven that interest, even in the young is still unbelievably strong and can cite many examples.

As myself and Vince Burzio do our Armoury display table at re-enactments with the Diehard Company, and other historical events, I never cease to be amazed/staggerred to see the sheer interest and enthusiasm that visitors show who often crowd around our table all keen to hold a Martini Henry, a kerrie or talk about the war. Often on a six or seven hour day we simply do not stop, and end up doing it in relay. We have hundreds of dads and their lads, (and mums too) swopping notes, keen to talk about screwdrivers, Henry Hook and bullets from Birmingham.

At Kelmarsh this year a young chap Tom, 8 years old was with his parents, home-made red tunic. pith helmet, South Africa medal miniture and plastic Martini, I gave him an intert M-H bullet..to him it might as well have been solid gold. He watched the film every week...sound familiar?

Ask the many 100's of people who turned up for the re-dedication of James Marshalls Grave in Ruddington last year, the TV cameras, the local press clamouring to get involved and getting the best angle.

No, interest in not waning, perhaps the drying up of everything that has been written that has not been done before does create the impression that it has, but, take a look at the Sunday papers at the adverts to go on a two week trip to South Africa, most popular venue ater table mountain and the Kruger...you've guessed it The AZW battlefields.

The company that runs the big ads for the Sunday mail Travel , and the Express Travel, are a company called Riviera travel in Burton on trent , I know the CEO due to contact with her when I was supplying kit for their new offices, she told me that the battlefields were in because its one of the first things people asked for.

David Fox once said to me, you think you are ploughing a lonely furrow with the AZW stuff, then you realise..its a bl@@dy big field.

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:44 pm

Ah, but, is the interest in 'Disneyfying' the Zulu War or does it represent a serious longer term interest in the history and its residual regional significance.

People will turn up to almost any opportunity to indulge themselves in their own sentimental or nostalgic perceptions of this manifestation - largely motivated by the two fillums.

I can't remember who wisely pioneered the notion of the destruction of the Zulu War history by them. Anybody remember?

G

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:14 pm

G...

If I may, I'd like to just reply to your comment about "Disneyfying" the Zulu War. You know even as 'serious amateur' when it comes to all things AZW I absolutely see nothing wrong with the act of "Disneyfying" it. Why should it be looked askance? What would be the problem? It certainly wouldn't desecrate it but, on the other hand, it wojuld greatly popularize it to various generations particularly the young who as we know are evry impressionable. In fact, I'd think it would be a boon for its popularity for the simple reason that its exposing that great history to those who most likely would not come across it all in their existence. And in any case, only a small minority of those who are exposed would even entertain the thought of being a scholar in its events and personalities. I think the AZW has to take what it can get. Perhaps this may have more significnace here rather than in the Uk but I'd still note that not many history students after high school go on and 'study' the AZW and get advanced degrees in it. Many years ago, Disney did a film on "Davey Crockett", an American "hero". What it did for his publicity was incredible. Kids throughout the US clamored for items on him and were singing his theme "song". All in all they got involved with "Davey" and I'm sure some of them grew up to be politicians! "Disneyfication"...... A criticism I know but really I don't think it is a valid one. Just my opinion!....

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:29 pm

I disagree with the Disney comment here, ask how many of the regular contributors to this forum would have actually not been interested due to the films, and, why Waterstones et al still stock far more published works on the conflict than say the Sudan, Afghanistan or other colonial campaigns of the time, reason, it sells and a hell of a lot of people do want to study it.

The issue is, where apart from this forum does one find out about these events if you are not in the know, I for one, and I class myself as being well... fairly well know amongst the AZW fraternity did not hear or read about this link event apart from here.

Thirty years ago and more since I got interested, there was very little you could get on the subject, no tinterweb, not DVD's of the AZW but it still fostered an interest, and that interest is still VERY strong, and I am not just talking film buffs, you need to come to some of the events we do, and talk to the people we do, yes you get those who think Holywood is reality, but it does stagger me how much people do know, wel, beyond film, but ask them about Abu Klea, Miawand and Tofrek and all you get is blank looks.

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:06 pm

Rich,

I sort of agree with some of what you say but not entirely. It's interesting, for example, to compare the early John Wayne Alamo film with that more recently produced during the 1990s (unfortunately the name escapes me).

The first film was very much in the yarning 'Zulu' style, but the second made a more serious attempt at a more historical approach and in many ways was the more impressive version. And the better recognition of and memorial to the Alamo defenders.

G

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:45 pm

Neil

Thanks for your reply.

It's great to read such positive news.

Coll

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:07 pm

You know I was just thinking. How about a Zulu War theme park???? Put it in one of the "shires". Only thing is one has to be absolutely sure the interest is there or you'll be holding a bit 'o' dosh' that'll be need to be repaid! 'Now if that isn't "Disneyfying' the AZW I don't tknow what is!
So Neil what do you think? Is the interest there to support that? Personally, I think it's nice business school argument.... Wink

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:59 pm

For the past 23 years in October at the Colne Valley Railway's Victorian Fantasy I've presented an historical lecture based on either Isandhlwana, Rorke's Drift, or Hlobane to primary aged school students from Years 5-6.
Roughly 1500 visit the 3-day event each day and places are booked in each of the activities in advance. I repeat my lecturer 7 times each day and I see about 1000 kids per day. It's not disneyfied. It is dignified and the kids are spellbound, interested, and enthused.
In addition I also run secondary-age, day-long courses for secondary school students which are full each time.
I don't recognize anything that Galloglas wrote about in any of the students I meet, and I work in education.
The children's fascination may well have started with the film Zulu, etc., but once they find out the truth, there's no holding them back.