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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:33 pm

The more and more I read about the battle of Isandlwana, in an effort to become more aware of the smaller details � the more and more confused I�m getting!

It seems that every author I read has a different version of the story. I do understand that over the years the story of the battle has somewhat evolved with new discoveries and conclusions�However with that said is there an author whose account of the battle is regarded today as the most accurate � an account that is seen to be reliable and as close to the truth as we can get?

Maybe I�m asking too much, but thought it would be interesting to see if there is actually an answer to this question.

Thanks,

David

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:52 pm

David

There isn't an answer to your question.

As much as I've read, no author has got the events 100 % accurate, including Mike Snook's 'How Can Man Die Beter' and Lock & Quantrill's 'Zulu Victory', two books, when compared against each other, I like to call 'clash of the titans' !

What answer I can give you is - if you take all of the books on the Zulu War 1879, stack them in a pile, you can then say the full story is there, but amassed from various extracts from the various books.

What to do, is, read all you can and come to your own conclusions, because I'll tell you this - you might be the one who's right ! Wink

Personally, I've made up my own mind, but my 'camp' has only one small tent with me in it, however, my opinion on the men and events remains constant.

Coll

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:13 pm

David

Without doubt the most accurate account, historically speaking, and omitting any speculation, is that by F.W.D. Jackson. His original version was in the form of three papers in the Journal for Army Historical Research in 1965, the same year as TWOTS was published. They can still be obtained in pamphlet form as Isandlwana 1879: The Sources Re-Examined, from the South Wales Borderers Museum, Brecon.

Alternatively, you can buy Jackson's updated version, which is little changed, as Hill of the Sphinx: The Battle of Isandlwana. You should also be able to get this through Brecon.

KIS

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:44 am

David

Yes, Keith's advice is very sound - if there ever is such a thing as a "balanced" account, then Jackson's "Hill of the Sphinx" is it. A lot of the recent accounts tend to push the respective author's viewpoint, and are sometimes based on the most slender piece of "evidence"

Over the years Ian Knight has tended to keep to the middle gound, basing his conclusions on pretty sound evidence, however he hasn't written anything really substantial on RD and Isandlwana for a number of years, though, his "Companion to the AZW" does touch on the various theories that are currently "doing the rounds". Perhaps now would be a good time for Ian to produce an update on RD and Isandlwana, incorporating all the latest evidence ? How, about it Ian ?

Bill

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:31 pm

Thank you all for thoes fantastic posts.

I had suspected that this question was virtually impossible to answer - but your replies do help very much.

I had not read Jackson before - except a small argument/essay Jackson wrote in response to Donal Morris criticisms of his version of the battle. It was published in a Victorian Historical Society type magazine - late 1980's...I''ll have to dig it out to get the proper name - It was a FANTASTIC read!

Thanks again guys,

David

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:49 pm

Speaking of which, I would like to get hold of a copy of the correspondence between Jackson and Morris about Isandhlwana. Can anyone advise?

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:01 am

Paul,

Not positive it's here (haven't looked through them all!) but his papers are in the UCLA Library, Dept. of Special Collections (I'm betting Box 18 Folder 2 or Folder 3 have what you're looking for) -

http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt4f59r7qt&chunk.I'd=c02-1.2.7.3.9&brand=oac

Also haven't looked into accessing them yet, not having any academic credentials, but this looks like the place to find out. The page linked to seems to be everything connected to TWOTS and gives a broad overview of his research over the years but digging into the actual folders referenced would prove quite illuminating I should think. The next time I'm on the Left Coast I'll give it a go myself but perhaps you can get them to send you copies. [Click on "Special Collections..." in the light blue header for their contact information.]

Best

Michael

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:41 am

Actually, haven read through it a bit more Box 19 Folder 11 would seem to be exactly what you're looking for as it is described (in rather bold letters) as "Correspondence: F.W.D. Jackson-Donald R. Morris Anglo-Zulu War Debate . 1966-1987"!

MAB

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:45 am

Morning Michael

Excellent, as always. But wasn't that correspondence also published? Or do you think that the UCLA holdings may have further letters between them?

Regards,

Paul

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:06 am

Paul,

There was something published in about 1980/1 in Soldiers of the Queen, the V.M.S. Journal, I'll try and find it for you.

Regards,

John Y.

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:47 pm

John Young wrote:

Paul,

There was something published in about 1980/1 in Soldiers of the Queen, the V.M.S. Journal, I'll try and find it for you.

Regards,

John Y.

This is the one I have. I can scan the pages over the weekend and email to any interested parties.

David

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:03 pm

mons14,
I note there is a new book by Ian Knight coming out on Isandlwana. I found it on Amazon-UK. Here's the link:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yesterdays-Blood-Battle-Isandlwana-1879/dp/1405091851/ref=sr_1_3?i.e.=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248980249&sr=8-3

Ron Sheeley

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:01 am

Evening Paul

No way of knowing at present but I imagine their correspondence ran to more pages than are contained in the article. It would be interesting to find out. I had originally tracked them down to get a glimpse at his notes and try to fill in the blanks left by the lack of footnotes (I don't blame him for that. Back then popular works rarely contained footnotes as footnotes tended to discourage 'popular reads'). When I read through all the headings though I must say some of them appear intriguing. Did he have access to correspondence that we are unfamiliar with? He seemed to have tracked down quite a few latter year accounts which could prove interesting as well. Not to mention the last two folders entitled "Television series proposal-correspondence . 1966" and "TWOTS: Screen production notes . undated". What a lost opportunity there, eh! If only ZULU had done better box office here...

David

Thanks for the kind offer but I understand all the back-issues of SoTQ are available for download at the VMS site for members. Memberships available for subscription on-line so I'm going to go that route. (Just wish I'd made that decision a few months ago when the exchange rate was more favourable by half!)

Ron

Yes I've been keeping my eye on Amazon-US for its release but it shows a pub date of May 2010 (and no prospective price). The synopsis sounds a bit incredulous but that's the way publishers like it! Still, it is Ian Knight...As I recall Mike's publishers took certain liberties with his works as well. Speaking of which Amazon US has Mike's HCMDB going for $289.25 new, (from secondary sellers) as well as $72.53 used and have dropped the advance order for the paperback. (Bet Mike doesn't see a dime of that though!) They also offer John LaBand's new "Historical Dictionary..." at $100.00 with a view of the first few pages -

http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Dictionary-Dictionaries-Revolution-Unrest/dp/0810860783/ref=sr_1_4?i.e.=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249004648&sr=1-4#reader

(Check out page 4.)

Best

Michael

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:07 pm

David

Probably none of us ever does or did, but Jackson should really be the very first to be read on Isandlwana, as has been suggested above.

Peter

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:47 pm

Thank you all again so much for all of this good advice.

This has been an issue for me as I've been trying to study the details of the battle on a much deeper level.

What do you fellows think of Phillip Gon's book 'The Road to Isandlwana'...just picked it up second hand and looks like it will be a good read?

David