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Help With Cap Badges
Alekudemus


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Monmouthshire/Gwent
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I think these old cap badges are probably Victorian. Any of our military men any ideas as to the regiments please?



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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 786
Location: Brecon
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Bottom one is (Royal) Army Service Corps (Geo V version). Top one might not be British - supporters are Lion and Eagle.

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Martin Everett
Brecon, Powys
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Alekudemus


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Monmouthshire/Gwent
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Thank you very much for the prompt reply Martin. I scoured my books and couldn't find either! At least I only have one to look for now.
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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1179
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Just to amplify Martin's input a bit-- The top badge is similar to several British badges, most commonly that for the Royal Artillery, but it would be a lion and a unicorn on the British one. What does the scroll say? The resolution of your photos makes the script unclear, but the eagle looks distinctly Hispanic to me-- Spain or perhaps Mexico? The three crescents ought to be a giveaway to someone more savvy than I am as well.
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Alekudemus


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Monmouthshire/Gwent
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The writing on the left hand side is either illegible or didn't exist. The writing on the right hand side says "STRENGTH". Don't know if that helps folks but thanks for your help so far.
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The star and crescents, is that not middle-eastern, turkey perhaps ?

I've only seen a flag with 3 crescent moons and stars, but they are in separate groupings, a star to each crescent.

With the word 'Strength' being included, would this not make it also European, meaning it may belong to a British ally, during the 19th Century - Crimean War, etc. ?

Additionally, could that be a phoenix, rather than an eagle ?

Just guessing, although I should have learned my lesson from the button topic ! Rolling Eyes

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Alekudemus


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Monmouthshire/Gwent
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You are right, the crescent is a Turkish symbol. I spent ages trawling through their badges but couldn't find any but "Strength" written in English doesn't seem to sit right with that theory. Also it could be a belt buckle possibly. The damage doesn't help. Its a bit of a conundrum this one. Many thanks though chaps. I appreciate it.
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I've got a feeling it is related in some way to Ottoman, as an early version of its flag has 3 crescent moons and a star.

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Alekudemus


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Monmouthshire/Gwent
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1517 - 1844 the Ottoman Empire used three crescents in their flag. Can't find anything on this cap badge/buckle though. Willing to follow any lead!
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Rather than trying to find any more info on different sites, which I've been doing, where the data can be somewhat dubious, I did see on my web-travels - medal, button and badge identification/discussion forums, where you might get some leads.

Might be worth a shot.

I'd still opt for an Ottoman-connection, possibly a campaign, but does it look like there is a crown missing from the top-centre of the item ?

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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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I've looked at this badge long and hard, and I have reached a conclusion.

The Lion of Britain; the Eagle of 2nd Empire France & the device of the Ottoman Empire. I wonder if the badge is missing the crown of the Kingdom of Sardinia. The allies against Russia in the Crimean War.

Could the legend read Unity in/is Strength?

John Y.
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Alekudemus


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Monmouthshire/Gwent
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Thanks very much for the info and ideas. I metal detect for a hobby and you might be surprised as to how many of these shako plates and cap badges turn up. Unfortunately not one from the 24th yet. You can be in a nondescript field in the middle of nowhere and up comes some army item. Even UXBs that need the bomb disposal people. Thanks again and I'll follow the leads you have gven me.
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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1179
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"Unity Makes Strength" is a common slogan in the Crimean "neck of the woods". It's actually the motto (a bit paraphrased in this century) on the national emblem of Bulgaria-- another bit of evidence possibly that John has the right idea.
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Alekudemus

If you metal-detect for a hobby, I'm assuming you log (record) where each of your findings were located ?

If you found the latter badge in this instance, where did you find it ?

If you did find it, during your hobby, and didn't log it, you may have made identification all the more difficult to identify.

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Alekudemus


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Monmouthshire/Gwent
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Hi Coll. All finds of note are mapped on the GPS system these days so the location is pinpointed. The finds are then passed to an FLO (Finds Liaison Officer). http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/archaeology/excavations_techniques/pas_day_life_01.shtml

Then the PAS (Portable Antiquities Scheme) makes a record of it. http://www.finds.org.uk/

I myself am a member of the Federation Of Independent Detectorists whose aim is to ensure that people in the hobby acts appropriately so a code of condduct was drawn up.

1. Get permission before detecting on private land. Never Trespass.


2. Make an agreement on sharing finds with the landowner to avoid any later misunderstandings.


3. Report all your finds to the landowner, even those that must be declared to the Coroner as well.


4. Remember to shut all gates, never walk through standing crops, do not startle animals or nesting birds.


5. Fill all holes, even on ploughed land or beaches. Never leave a mess or damage grass, a sharp trowel will cut a neat plug and once replaced and firmed in, the find spot will almost be invisible.


6. Most metal rubbish can be recycled, the Planet belongs to all of us, so dispose of your unwanted iron, lead, cans, silver paper etc. With care for the environment, and never leave junk on the site.


7. Never detect on a scheduled archaeological site, to do so is a criminal offence unless you have permission from the Secretary of State for National Heritage.


8. Report all Gold or Silver artefacts over 300 years old to the local Coroner, also hoards of coins or plate of any age or material.


9. All bombs, mines, ammunition or chemical containers, should have the find spot marked and be reported to the Police. Never attempt to move them yourself.


10. As a FID member you have a lot to be proud of, so always be friendly to people who ask about your hobby, help them find lost metal objects when requested and never break this "Code of Conduct" or give the hobby a bad image.


This was drawn up in 1996.

I currently detect with people from all walks of life including a psychiatrist. He also knows two other psychiatrists who metal detect. Another friend of mine who detects is a local G.P. He is also the "In House" metal detectorist who features on the TV programme "Time Team". We also have a qualified archaeologist amongst our little gang which comes in quite handy.

Even the spread of musket balls in a field is recorded by several groups I know. This has led to battlefield archaeology on the sites.

I know that our knowledge of Roman history was greatly enhanced by Major Tony Clunn, an avid detectorist. Major Clunn was stationed in Osnabruck, Germany. I daresay a few of us on this site know the area. With a lot of hard work and dedication Major Clunn discovered the site of the Battle of Teutoburg Forest. It is an interesting read if you have time.

http://www.reviewscout.com/1932714707
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Help With Cap Badges
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