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Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:31 am

Slightly away from topic, but of interest, I'll add the following:

In a recent article on line regarding Rick Recsorla, an ex-British Army, ex-Northern Rhodesian policeman and former US Army platoon leader, the following version of Men of Harlech was apparently sung by Rescorla (a man from Cornwall) as he helped people leave the Twin Towers on 11 September 2001:

Men of Cornwall stop your dreaming;
Can�t you see their spearpoints gleaming?
See their warriors� pennants streaming
To this battlefield.
Men of Cornwall stand ye steady;
It cannot be ever said ye
for the battle were not ready;
Stand and never yield!

[Is this not a modification of the words written for the film Zulu?]

And further to this story;

Every year, on March 25, Medal of Honor Day, the Congressional Medal of Honor Society, a society of the some 100 living recipients of the Medal of Honor, selects three civilians to receive the Above and Beyond Medal. In this manner, those of our living veterans who most exemplify the ideals of courage, sacrifice, integrity, patriotism, commitment and citizenship associated with the Medal of Honor itself, continue to give to our country by recognizing those qualities in civilian life. On March 25, 2009, in a ceremony before the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery, Rick Rescorla posthumously received the Above and Beyond Medal.

AMB

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:17 pm

Rick Rescorla features in the book "We were soldiers.... and young (once)" by Joe Galloway and Col Hal Moore about the 7th Airborne Cavalry in the Vietnam War.

You may have seen the 2002 film of the same name starring Mel Gibson. Generally, a good film (apart from the cheesy ending) but as ever, the book is much better. It also covers the later battle of LZ Albany to which most of the men marched i.e. they did not leave by helicopter as in the film. Recommended reading.

Rick Rescorla doesn't feature in the film at all but throughout the book. There are many names from that book i remember seeing on the Vietnam War Memorial, all clustered together just the right of the "knee" in the wall.

I knew he worked for Morgan Stanley security and stumbled upon his name amongst the list of dead from 9/11. It had to be him. http://www.rickrescorla.com/

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:45 pm

And I;m not sure where this is but a few years ago there was an argument that Mr. Rescorla should be honored with the George cross for his part in the Twin Towers disaster. It would be a way for the British to honor the ex-pat who displayed great heroism.

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:24 pm

Having just visited Mr Rescorla's memorial website, there is a link to a great recording of MoH.

It would appear that this gentleman was quite a remarkable man. It is nice to see that his life is being remembered in a number of ways.

AMB

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:15 pm

Just to affirm Rich's question does go back a-ways there's this from "The Red Dragon Index to Our Notes and Queries" edited by Charles Wilkins, James Harris, 1887 -

"The "March of the Men of Harlech."--Can any reader of the Red Dragon give me information concerning the composer of the words and music of "Gorhoffedd Gwyr Harlech" ("The March of the Men of Harlech")? I can gather nothing more than that it was composed during the celebrated nine years siege of the Harlech Castle which began in 1468."

[Unfortunately I have yet to find any response to that query.]

Having done a reasonably thorough internet search it seems that there may be more than one "Men of Harlech" out there. "Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians" by J.A. Fuller Maitland, 1910, contains a reproduced plate from the original "The Musical and Poetical Relicks of the Welsh Bards" that Simon referred to but I can assure you that it is another tune entirely in spite of being titled "Gorhoffedd Gwr Harlech (The March of the Men of Harlech)". Lucky for us all that I can't sing it here but it starts with a sixteenth-note trill (common for quick-marches) that leads to quarter-notes C,B,A,B C,D,E,C F,E,D,C B,A,B,G. Whereas the tune that we are familiar with begins - extended whole note A,eighth-note G,extended whole note F,eighth note G whole notes A,B,C,A, D,C,B,A G,F,G,E. [Okay, that was weird but take my word for it.]

An opinion in "Excursions in North Wales" by Rev. W. Bingley, 1839, -

"...Much has been said of the very high antiquity of most of the present Welsh airs, but the regularity of their composition seems to point out that they have not been formed at any remote period..." An opinion shared by other contemporary music critics who put the date of the tune from the mid 1600s to 1700s.

From "The New Monthly Magazine and Universal Register, Vol. X., July - Sept. 1818 -

"...Harlech was for a time (in 1460) the refuge for Queen Margaret, after her defeat at Northampton...The national air, "The March of the Men of Harlech," owes its origin to this siege.[1468]"

Which indicates to me, along with the following citation, that the tune with which we are familiar may have been around for some time at that point. As well perhaps explaining why it has been confused as being the national anthem of Wales.

From "The Monthly Magazine, or British Register, Vol. LII, Part II. for 1821 is a footnote -

"It is said that this siege gave origin to that spirit-stirring national air "The March of the Men of Harlech," and where is the Welshman whose heart does not beat quick and joyously when he hears this energetic composition?"

However, from "The Cambro-Briton" Vol. III, Nov., 1821 - June, 1822, by John Humffreys Parry, under the heading "English Poetry", "Welsh Melody: Intended for the "Canorion" Society"", "Air--"The Men of Harlech"" (With no attached music, unfortunately) is a poem (a paean to Cymbru's roving sons) whose rhythm doesn't seem to allow for the "Men of Harlech" that we are familiar with. However, it seems to attest to there being another song of that title extant at that time.

The earliest published set of lyrics I've found is from "An Historical Sketch of Harlech Castle and its Environs, by David William Pughe, 1846, -

"MARCH OF THE MEN OF HARLECH.

Owen Gwynedd's [Owain Glyndwr, 1408?] Address to the Army.

"Warriors see the war descending,
Gleaming spears and swords are blending,
Stand we firm with souls unbending,
For we will be free :
The storm of battle lower,
And within this hour,
Must stand or fall,
Like warriors all,
Against this mighty power;--
Where you see my standard streaming,
Where you hear the foe wild screaming,
There I mid the swords thick gleaming:
Cymru follow me!""

[Anyone who read rather than sang that to himself, take a seat at the back of the room!]

From "A Treatise on the Language, Poetry, and Music of the Highland Clans" by Donald Campbell, 1862, there is a song entitled "Rhyfelgyrch Gwyr Harlech.--The War-Song of the Men of Harlech." (Side by side Welsh and English translations) that also doesn't seem to fit the tune we know although this one is martial in nature.-

Harlech, raise thy banners ;
See the enemy. Kindle the vigour
Of the Merioneth men, all to cry,

Wales be forever!

Go the cry, and go the prayer,
To each corner of our highly honoured
land,
'Till Snowden re-echoes,

Wales be forever!

Peasants, soldiers, suddenly
Let us rush the enemy ;
Let us drive him, flying from brook,
And Hill, and glen, and vale.
Let us wave the banner of victory ;
Let us rejoice in his wailing ;
The cry of our victory shall be heard,

Wales be forever." [Two more verses follow these.]

Of course the original Welsh could follow the tune quite nicely if this English translation simply leaves much to be desired. One of Paul's banes!

[Quite so! Just found this - http://www.contemplator.com/tunebook/Wales/harlech.htm ]

The W.H. Baker version, cited by Simon - http://www.data-Wales.co.uk/harlech2.htm

Three other versions including "Talhaiarn"'s ( Which describes the 1408 siege) - http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Men_of_Harlech

Yet anther version, this one from http://www.24thfoot.org/download/Booklet.pdf (no attribution) -

Fierce the beacon light is flaming,
With it tongues of fire proclaiming,
Chieftains, sundered to your shaming,
Strongly now unite!
At the call all Arfon rallies,
War cries render hills and valleys,
Troop on troop, in headlong sallies,
Hurtle to the fight!
Chiefs lie dead and wounded,
Yet, where first �twas grounded,
Freedom�s flag still holds the crag---
Her trumpet still is sounded!
There we�ll keep her banner flying,
While the pale lips of dying,
Echo to our shouts, defying,
�HARLECH! For the right!�

According to "The Musical Standard", 1872, the song was first harmonized by Charles Gounod and in "Progressive Music Lessons" by George Brace Loomis, 1881, the English words (the most familiar and common at the time) are by William Duthie (with a new harmony by Joseph Barney.)

Of course anyone who independently translated from the Welsh could claim the "words by" byline and that could explain some of the many variations. For Duthie's version (although credited here to Sir Joseph Barnby (1837-1896)), the lyrics that show up most often in my 19th century searches, - {Warning - unless you fancy hearing the tune rendered in the best Nintendo NES (i.e. -Super Mario Brothers) fashion you may want to mute your speakers before clicking the following two links!} http://www.contemplator.com/Wales/harlech.html . Another version, attributed to Thomas Oliphant - http://www.contemplator.com/Wales/harlech2.html

An interesting observation from "A Dictionary of Music and Musicians (A.D. 1450-1880)," edited by George Grove, D.C.L., 1880 -

"The earliest instance of the march form in regular rhythmical phrasing seems to be the well-known and beautiful Welsh tune, the national Cambrian war-song, 'The March of the Men of Harlech'. This melody, which has only become generally popular within recent years,..." [Since the 24th's sojourn in South Africa perhaps? Actually, in juxtaposition, "The Ladies' Companion and Monthly Magazine," Vol. XXII, 1863, offers the opinion that the song was being played into the ground, as it were, and makes a plea that other deserving but lesser known compositions be introduced in it's stead. I suppose it all depended on one's location.]

A rather cryptic extract from "American Photography" Vol. III, Jan.-Dec. 1909, discussing the postcards sold at Harlech Castle, -

"Mention it [Harlech Castle] to the man who knows that "Men of Harlech" was written during one siege, and set to the stirring, defiant strains of a tune composed during another siege by men who were in the front of the fighting..." [This alludes to the theory that the 1408 siege produced the words and the 1468 siege the music.]

Another attribution from "Universal Musical Encyclopedia" by Louis Charles Elson, 1912,-

"...Thomas Love Peacock, who wrote "March of the Men of Harlech," 1785-1866,..."

Amazingly, according to the "Catalog of Copyright Entries", Library of Congress, 1938, one George F. Briegel copyrighted "Men of Harlech" (along with "America, the Beautiful", "Annie Lisle", "The Good Old Summertime" and "The Star Spangled Banner")!

It seems that the tune had many different lyrics applied, from the anti-English version by the poet Thomas Davis in 1858 to later missionary versions tending more toward 'Christian Soldiers'. As well many different musical arrangements were produced and credited to the arranger. Well pre-dating 'Monty Python' and the 'Goodies' song parodies were also common, "The Cambro-Briton", Vol. I, Sept. 1819 - Aug. 1820, offers an example on "The Live Long Night" ("Ar Hyd y Nos") - "There is scarcely a composer who has not written variations on this melody, particularly for the harp. And lately Liston, the actor, has introduced a comic parody on it, which he sings, riding on an Ass, and wherein the simple burthen of the original is burlesqued into "Ah! hide your nose."" Along those lines there is a fairly well known parody on "Men of Harlech" written by an old Etonian, William Hope-Jones, prior to 1914 that was popular with the Boy Scouts and, later, the troops in WWII. [ http://www.gwerin.org.uk/silly/songs/reenactment.htm and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK5-F9mLp4Y ]

So, all-in-all I personally don't see any reason to doubt Dan Hayward's account as the march would have been fairly well known at the time (to those that marched from Wales at least!) However, in spite of the many lyrics I have come across, I have yet to locate that particular set. At the least it seems to show an attempt at broadening the march's appeal beyond just Cambrian influenced regiments!

[By the same token I see no reason to believe that the RD defenders *couldn't* have sung it, beyond the obvious assumption that they had more important things to do with their time and breath! (The song was popular, in Wales at least, there were some Welshman there and troops often sang tunes beyond their official regimental song. Beyond that I've found many actual references to troops singing on the march but few of them actually singing during battle!)]

Best

Michael

As an aside here is perhaps a broad tie-in to the A-ZW from "Local Etymology:A Derivative Dictionary of Geographical Names." by Richard Stephen Charnock, 1859, under the chapter "Rambles From Harlech" -

"...In 1468 King Edward sent the Earl of Pembroke to attack the castle, but was unfortunate, and a bard of the age recounts the slaughter in figures that would make a Colenso very dubious indeed,..."

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:38 am

Michael wrote:
Of course the original Welsh could follow the tune quite nicely if this English translation simply leaves much to be desired. One of Paul's banes!

Sorry Michael, I've now stopped referring to the Welsh language, quoting it or translating from it on this forum. I've learned my lesson.
Wink

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:35 pm

Michael

What a compilation! Well done and thanks. For years I have wondered if the words I recall my mother singing to me (all of 50 year ago) were in my imagination. Now, at last, I see Ancient Britons never hit on ... all over again via the link you provided, apparently entitled here The Woad Ode.

The popularity of the tune in the mid-19th century is well demonstrated in your collection, and I agree with you (& Paul) that there is now every reason to believe Dan Hayward was speaking from a reliable memory on this point.

The last extract puzzles me. In 1859 (the date you quote) Colenso was an uncontroversial missionary bishop in a colonial backwater. Either the date is incorrect or the meaning of the reference escapes me.

Peter

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:47 pm

Michael:

Your research skills are simply amazing!

So, at the last, it would appear that Men of Harlech has many "song-fathers". I'd bet that a version exists somewhere and that was sung on the streets of Brecon in 1562! This is the kind of song that I'd guess the Welsh treat as "everybody" can do with it as they see fit with the words. All Welsh can be authors if they so choose. Such is great art through the ages!

Now I wonder who wrote the words of MOH in Zulu? John Barry with Ivor??... Wink

....

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:40 pm

Paul

More's the pity there!

Peter

Can you tell I like the song? That last was the result of compiling many notes over time. Pleased to have been able to share it.

That last quote confused me as well, the date is 1859 (Google Books photo reproductions of every page) but all I've found on John W. Colenso up to that point was his published arithmetic books in the 1830s and 40s, his 1855 "Ten Weeks in Natal" (a somewhat unorthodox offering that apparently foreshadowed his later 1861 bomb-shells) and his 1859 "First Steps in Zulu: An Abridgment of the Elementary Grammar of the Zulu-Kaffir Language", none of which strikes me as particularly controversial! He was, of course, a math wiz having supported himself as a tutor at St. John's, Cambridge and graduating Second Wrangler in the Mathematical Tripos of 1836 as well the Smith's prizeman, resulting in his being elected to a fellowship at St. John's and later appointed a mathematics tutor at Harrow. The only thing I can think is that the quote references his math skills which were either reasonably well known then or the author of the quote was a former student of his. If, in fact, it relates to the same Colenso, however I've been unable to find any others.

[Having already composed the preceding I just located something that would seem to indicate that he was stirring the pot even then! -

http://drs.library.yale.edu:8083/fedora/get/divinity:129/PDF

In it one finds reference to a paper he wrote in 1855 entitled "Remarks on the Proper Treatment of Cases of Polygamy, As Found Already Existing in Converts From Heathenism" which in turn elicited a published response, in 1856, from H. A. Wilder entitled "A Review of Dr. Colenso's Remarks on Polygamy". The more I find on him the more interesting he becomes, he was even an early adopter of Charles Darwin's theories. Definitely not your typical Anglican Bishop of the day!]

Rich

I'll leave that question to Sheldon!

Best

Michael

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:53 am

Michael

I seem to be following you around the threads ... Very Happy

Not only was Colenso a Darwinist, the Christianity he taught to William Ngidi, Magema kaMagwaza Fuze and the rest was essentially Darwinian. There is even a veiled reference to Darwin in Colenso's post-Isandlwana sermon on 12 March 1879. And Darwin knew of Colenso too. Public subscription lists to defray Colenso's legal costs included the signatures of such men as Stanley, Sir Joseph Hooker, Huxley, Dickens, Trollope, Lecky, Grote, Walter Pater, Vernon Harcourt, John Morley and William Temple, later Archbishop of Canterbury. The list goes on, and Darwin's name is among them.

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:24 am

Off topic, somewhat, but the BBC radio station for that part of the UK west of Offa's Dyke featured an item on the the British and Irish Lions Male Voice Choir. Apparently they will be performing at Rorke's Drift during the Lions' Tour of South Africa. Wonder what they'll be singing ...

Confused

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:37 pm

Paul:

Speaking of Darwin, there's a very interesting book out right now called "The Darwin Myth". For those who think Darwin was "theistically friendly" they have another thing coming. The argument in the book is really that he was an atheist and wrote God out of his theory of evolution.
The myth that he supposedly has propagated is that evolution must be godless to be scientific.