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Kiwi Sapper
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 |
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Location: Middle Earth & Home of Narnia; (Auckland, New Zealand) |
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:25 am |
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Help I have a replica set ( x I.M.A , USA) and despite extensive Googleing have failed to establish the correct name, issue date, (of the original, not my replica) nor the correct assembly method let alone a list off all the attachments. Can any kind, erudite person point me to a suitable web site? A "cherry on the top" would be to find the date they ceased to be used by either British or Colonial troops, ........but that may be asking too much. So , any guidance on any of the above would be greatfully received. Thank you.
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_________________ It was a confusion of ideas between him and one of the lions he was hunting in Kenya that had caused A. B. Spottsworth to make the obituary column. He thought the lion was dead, and the lion thought it wasn't.
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Sawubona
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 |
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:57 pm |
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Kiwi, I'll wing this one without looking at IMA to see exactly what you've got.
During the AZW, the leather equipment issued was called the '71 Valise pattern. The most immediately identifiable part of this equipment was that the shoulder straps do not attach to the back of the belt at all, but rather loop up from the front of the belt and attach to a ring below the armpit , cross on the back and then wrap around each shoulder. It was typically worn with a pair of fairly shallow ammunition pouches on either side of the buckle.
This system of leather gear was replaced in 1882 with the "'82 Valise " kit-- similar enough to the next system so that it is often called the "'82 Slade Wallace'. The pouches were a bit deeper and unlike the '71 Valise, the shoulder straps cross on the back and attach to the back of the belt in a rather less complicated fashion. Keep in mind that at this time the Martini Henry was still the standard issue rifle, but that was to change very soon.
With the issue of the Lee Metford (similar to the Long or Charger Loaded Lee Enfield) magazine rifle, cartridges were now smaller and lighter. This resulted in the adoption of the "88 Slade Wallace" system named after its designers Mssrs. Slade and Wallace, very similar to the '82 pattern, but with different pouches reflecting the use of the new ammunition and rifle. I imagine this is the pattern you have. The actors portraying the redcoats in ZULU are incorrectly wearing this pattern if you are looking for a good representation of the system.
During the Second Anglo Boer War, a new system was informally adopted by some British that eventually was formally adopted *on a limited basis) in 1903 and referred to as the "'03 Bandolier" pattern and this was replaced in turn by the '08 Web Pattern. Meanwhile the stocks of the '88 pattern continued to be worn for "dress" well into the 20th Century, particularly the belt with the three loops in the back. I imagine Colonial troops continued to wear the 88 Slade Wallace for longer.
I can't speak for the Antipodes or even Great Britain, but original leather accouterments are rare Stateside. Belts of the '88 pattern are the most commonly available, probably reflecting their continued wear after the style was replaced, followed by belts of the '82 pattern. Pouches for both are rarer and pricier, although those for the '82 are sometimes available for a good price because they aren't properly IDed. Shoulder straps are both rare and pricey for both systems. Any '71 Valise gear is extremely rare and consequently very valuable.
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Last edited by Sawubona on Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Sawubona
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 |
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:10 pm |
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Kiwi, just checked out IMA. Obviously, that is the '88 (What was the giveaway, Saw, the date listed?). The snake buckle was less common than the "general service" style and not what you are apt to see at sales of original leather militaria (over here anyway), but still "correct". Check out a web site called "The Thin Red Line" if you can find it. Although difficult to navigate, it has excellent examples of each of the systems and how they were worn. Google "thin red line Victorian reproduction", click on the obvious choice, scroll to the bottom of the "memorial page" to Kieth Parks and hit continue, click on the redcoat and then click on "catalogue" at the top. Voila!
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Kiwi Sapper
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Location: Middle Earth & Home of Narnia; (Auckland, New Zealand) |
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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:01 am |
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I send Greetings to Sawubona.
Many thanks for "raising the veils from my eyes". I now have , per courtesy of you, a better understanding of what I have hanging up in my QMS. Not period for Rorke's Drift but 19 th Century correct. I did a re-run of Zulu and Zulu Dawn and as a result, I have spent some time pondering as to why the film companies got it so wrong with their costume. Cost, and availabilty I suspect. The flow on effect of that is of course, (as I perceive it), that the average man (or woman, let's not get sexist here) in the street, accepts the silver screen presentation as correct. I have encountered this before and endured the "head banging" scenario of trying to explain that what they saw at the Odeon,De Luxe, Majestic, Tivoli etc. was not correct. Don't want to go there again!
Again, thank you, and the links you so kindly supplied, have been most useful in assisting me to reach a decision as to how I shall be seen "strutting the stage".
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_________________ It was a confusion of ideas between him and one of the lions he was hunting in Kenya that had caused A. B. Spottsworth to make the obituary column. He thought the lion was dead, and the lion thought it wasn't.
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