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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:48 pm

Dear Forum,

I have been alerted by a relative of the Jones family that there has been a spate of thefts in Philip's Park cemetery where 5 bronze memorial plaques have been stolen. The Manchester and Lancs Family History Society (of which I am a member) is advising all interested in military history to check their local memorials to find out if they are still intact. The M&L FHS is urging all members to volunteer to transcribe War Memorials and stresses the importance of recording all war memorials. Anybody interested in the Manchester and North West region can contact the M&L FHS at [email protected] and a list of the memorials already recorded can be found on their website at http://www.mlfhs.org.uk This is a very worthwhile project to become involved in over the Christmas and New Year period if you have any spare time.

Tony Jones.

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:51 pm

Sadly this happened down our way

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Names-Plymouth-s-fallen-heroes-stolen-scrap/article-200823-detail/article.html

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:31 pm

The RN memorial on the Hoe is one of an identical three, the other examples being at Portsmouth & Chatham. About 20 years or more ago the Pompey memorial also lost some of its bronze plaques to vandals or thieves, I recall. Ditto for the main Hastings war memorial in Alexandra Park around the same time (recovered soon afterwards).

The current market in stolen bronze and other metals makes these plaques very vulnerable, for the same reasons that lead disappears rapidly these days from many a local church roof. How such large and presumably heavy plaques can be levered off in such prominent public places, even at night, beggars belief. As does also what goes on - or doesn't go on - in the minds of these people.

When you think that virtually every village, town and city has at least one (often several, sometimes many) publicly positioned WW1 memorial, and that a huge proportion bear bronze plaques relating to both world wars, the potential for loss is enormous.

Peter

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:33 pm

Sadly not a new problem. As far back as the early 1980s the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) had found it necessary to replace the downwards pointing bronze swords on the Cross of Sacrifice in War Cemeteries with a carefully textured synthetic substitute - so many were either being stolen for scrap or stolen to order as decorative items for home display.

Even people who would probably view themselves as ardent supporters of the CWGC's aims contribute to the damage and deterioration of monuments and gravestones by shading inscriptions on memorial panels with lead pencils or prising their way into the pointing of masonry joints so that they can insert poppies or wooden crosses.
G

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:36 pm

Dear All,

It probably doesn't even register with the people stealing these memorial plaques their significance or worth (emotionally and historically). As Peter Ewart mentions, lead on churches is also 'fair game' for theft. There was an incident last year where two white transit vans had circled an estate in Manchester and stole all the cast-iron grids from the perimeter of the estate. The grids were made in the Victorian era and thus not only have value as scrap metal but also can be sold to museums (elsewhere in the world) as artifacts. The same applied to railings on seafronts on the south coast where whole streches of barriers were being removed. What ever happened to the good old fashioned concept of 'doing a decent day's work'. This is one of the values this society has lost including due respect for the soldiers who fought for the democracy which they need to live in to be able to function as 'thieves'.

Tony.

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:38 am

G

I hadn't heard of the sword thefts from Blomfield's Cross of Sacrifice. Strangely, the Commission already had problems with the Cross because of the verdigris emanating from the sword over the years, so it may have solved a maintenance problem provided the replacements are not unsightly! They obviously have plenty of experience of removing the verdigris which drips down the vertical face of the cross and, in fact, they provide practical maintenance advice on this point to local branches of the RBL or local councils, as some crude methods of removal were damaging memorials unwittingly. (I have a particular interest in the appearance of the great Cross of Sacrifice as its designer, Sir Reginald Blomfield, one of the three major architects engaged in 1919 by the CWGC, resided in my home town of Rye and, exceptionally, allowed Rye to use his design for its own memorial in 1919 - although some other communities did so without his permission. His granddaughter still lives in the town).

Hopefully, one of the worst cases of the abuse of the CWGC cemeteries, that of stealing the register from the entrance porch by researchers and medal collectors etc., will have diminished since the CWGC records went online a few years ago.

Peter

P.S. I find it difficult to think of any other structure or emblem which more fittingly evokes GB's & the Commonwealth's contribution to the 20th century than Blomfield's familiar cross, for which he received plenty of advice on design. He rejected it all, saying he didn't want it to reflect any particular period or style. Keeping it simple, he said he preferred it to be "embellished only by the bronze sword of the fighting man." I think he got it spot on.

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:08 am

Though my first recollection of the CWGC reporting thefts of Cross of Sacrifice metal fittings was in the early 1980s in one of its Annual Reports I see that, quite fortuitously, the problem is referred to again in Part 2 of the 2007-08 Report in the PDF at:

http://www.cwgc.org/document.asp?menuid=5&submenuid=24&I'd=6&menuname=%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Annual%20report&menu=subsub

The current ongoing work on 1899-1902 Boer War graves in South Africa based upon UK/RSA bilateral efforts is - I understand - also starting to see increased numbers of 'souvenir' thefts of the Ordnance Pattern grave marker crosses. I'm reliably informed that there has also been some pilfering at the Lower Drift of several of the 'Brave British Soldier' grave markers over the last 5 years. Like it or not, where there is no real scrap value this looting would largely appear to be inspired by fringe elements of AZW and ABW enthusiasts and 'collectors'. We should try to shop the lot of them whenever there is actionable evidence to present to the authorities to pursue.

G

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:07 pm

You know when it comes to these kinds of thefts I see them as the lowest of the low. I just believe that if those with memorials don't do something the problem will only get worse. Perhaps they can work and fashion up some security arrangements which would make those who plan to steal think twice that they just might get caught. Put signs up saying premises are monitored or even put in "fake" cameras if real ones cost too much.
Sadly, this will continue to go on if an effort isn't made somehow to check the pilfering.