Sawubona
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Peter,
Interesting reading as usual from your post. Norris-Newman was at Fugitives' Drift the day after Melville and Coghill were interred and was known to sketch occasionally-- how well I don't know, but his maps show some talent and attention to detail. Although he doesn't name any companions on his visit, I can't imagine he risked it alone. Perhaps Higginson was with him and pointed out a/the rock? Does Barker say anything of interest in "A Colonial..." (can't find my copy at present)? I recall his ancestor had a great deal to say about Higginson and he (Barker) was at the Drift during the crossing of the fugitives as well. |
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Neil Aspinshaw
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What has not really been considered is that the orginal Drift pre-dated the war by many years, we have got to consider the NNC, who, would know this crossing point almost like we would know the backroads of our own district to miss the traffic. Irrespective of the terrain in 1879 I firmly believe they would go with the flow!. If Smith Dorrien had to leap from the high point, why was he there and not in the Sandy bay.
The track which I saw would have been quite defined, unlike the modern well trodden Fugitives Trail, (or the white painted arrows!!!, not there in 1879). If the Native horse and NNC who we already in action knew this was the place of sanctuary this would have been the the magnet to head to. in a six feet flood would much of the rocks which we have all skidded and slid over trying to get to Natal without getting the top half of our bodies wet actuallt be expose in a flood, well, no in a word. And if those which are submerged anything to go by impossible to grip as they are water polished like gemstones. Mel, my sides still hurt after the half hour me and Jonesy spent watching you and Cluffie (Siamese Twins) crossing, sorry mate but we belly laughed and still chuckle about it now. |
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_________________ Neil |
Mel
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What Neil hasn't mentioned, is that I had about �2000 worth of camera gear around my neck and had forgotten the waterproof bags. Falling was not an option.
Peter, The location of the recovery of the colour pole is shown in a sketch by Harford on Page 71 of Ron and Peter's "The 1879 Zulu War" As you will see it is about four hundred metres down stream of the large pool and just before the river enters the gorge. A further clue to consider is that Higginson states that Melvill pulled him off the large rock into still water. With the river in a fast flowing state this could only be in the backswim of the large pool just slightly downstream from the rock shown in the ILN sketch. |
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_________________ Mel |
Peter Ewart
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Sawubona
I had missed the point that Noggs went along afterwards. And, as you say, quite possibly not alone (in fact, he'd have had to have someone to guide him, let alone as protection). He has confused the dates, as do many accounts, as although the 4th and 5th are often given for the two expeditions, I think the 24th archives confirm the 3rd and 4th (see also the chapter on "The Queen's Colour" in Keith Smith's latest book, Studies in the AZW, where he discussed this point). So Noggs was there on the 6th, it seems. And, as you say - might he have done a little sketch? I haven't got L&Q's reprint of the ILN - any clues in there, anyone? Yes, Barker's grandson (Denis) does elaborate. Barker's original account and Higginson's report are well known and appear in several works & are used and discussed widely - see IK's in The Sun Turned Black, and Keith Smith also includes both accounts in his Selected Docs of the AZW. The way I read Ian's, it even allows for the possibility of both Barker's and Higginson's accounts being reconcilable. The whole problem once again (sorry about this!) is Morris. (Yes, wonderful writer - I too admire his great prose and also his indefatigability in researching in those days in the difficulties of his position, and agree that he was, in many ways, a modern pioneer of the subject & that we are all in his debt - but he shouldn't have persisted in making so much up. Not mistakes or sloppiness - but deliberate fiction, repeatedly. Yarns). He read Higginson's account and no doubt Barker's. So how does he arrive at his story? You tell me. Anyway, DB adds to the written account in his Zulus at Bay: A Colonial Chronicle. There is much that is not original in the book generally and one or two points to raise an eyebrow at. And oral history is fraught with dangers, of course. However, he relates what his grandfather told his family, expanding upon the written account. It goes a bit further then L&Q in ZV, who also flagged up this discrepancy. The gist is that Higginson was found down in the bottom of the valley, alone and horseless, by Barker, when the latter & his companions (Tarboton etc) had got at least halfway up the hill/slope/gorge. Barker had gone back to see if he could locate Hawkins, his mate, hoping that the figure he could see was him. But it was Higginson. He helped him anyway, got him onto his horse, only for H to ride off, up and away, without waiting for B. B's comrades had, by arrangement, gone on towards Helpmekaar and waited along the route. Hoping that B (and perhaps Hawkins) would be along soon, they saw, instead, Higginson arrive - and they recognised B's horse straight away. He told them he'd found it in the gorge, which, to the Carbineers, implied that B was in difficulties or worse. Recovering B's horse from H, they went back to look for him, only to come across thepoor b----r staggering along the route, having outrun some Zulus since leaving the river after having to run for his life out of the gorge. H, by now no doubt embarrassed, said he had been intending to send the horse back for him! These shocked Carbineers therefore gave no credence whatever to H's story about M & C's end and were utterly disgusted by his behaviour. However, up against the full weight, later, of the Glyn's & Symon's reports (based on guess who?), who was going to listen to the claims of a 19 year old colonial? Take your pick as to whose story is likely. Higginson's? Or Barker's and his mates? I can't see how one can be right without the other - at least from the time Higginson was out of the water. A very strange and unnecessary story for the NCs to make up, if that's what they did. Who knows if the rest of his account in the river is also cock-&-bull? Coghill's dad supported him when things got hot for him - but you'd have to say: "He would, wouldn't he?" We can try to understand what happened by looking at B's or H'saccounts, or both - but definitely not Morris's version! Who knows? Interesting points by Neil tonight but its late & this is too long again! Peter P.S. Mel - thanks. Just seen yours, but bedtime! |
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Neil Aspinshaw
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Sorry Mel,I should have added the bit about the cameras, That said Cluffies thumb has never been the same, the stick still has the imprint on it!.
I could mention here my Coghill Theory.. what do you think?, is it worth it or will I get hounded off the site!!!!!!. |
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_________________ Neil |
Jamie
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Go for it!
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_________________ www.isandlwana1879.co.uk |
Neil Aspinshaw
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Jamie
I daren't!, Myself and Mel have a theory, but thats all it is, it involves Coghill, Popes compnay, Durnfords retirement, the right flank, being semi cut off and a long way around. Thats it... I'm off, |
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_________________ Neil |
Coll
Guest
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Neil
Now that sounds like the beginning of a very interesting new topic. I'd really like to know more, as many others would. Coll |
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Neil Aspinshaw
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I will if Mel backs me up on this......Mel? dare we?
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_________________ Neil |
AG
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Come on Neil & Mel, you can't leave us all wondering !!
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Neil Aspinshaw
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OK, my theory, thats all, nothing else.
Mike, John, everyone ,this is a slant before I get tied to a wagon wheel and cut open like a sheep. (Being a Derby County fan doesn't help). So, the theory. gulp!,Missing times, etc, but worth a bit of a debate. In Jan 2006 Myself and Mel Hunt sat on the rocky outcrop on the end of the line where Pope's company were positioned. A few things fell into place, bare me out on this. On the ground facts: A) This is one of the only clear positions on the battlefield, apart from the HQ command position that you can clearly see Durnfords Donga and the associated land beyond as the vantage point is good. B) Without doubt Pope was making some headway toward Durnford as he was out on a bit of an extreme. c) When Durnford retired, oblique past Pope he inevitably left Pope exposed to side and frontage and now a matter of time to near wipe out. So, our theory........please, its a theory... (why do I think I am going to be hung out on this?.) a) In his position Pope would have no doubt seen the Zulu left horn beginning to extend and outflank Durnford to the right of the Donga, so could the command Tent. b) Pope could have moved off toward the right rear of Durnford to present an extended defence, indeed he did seem to be going oblique down the slope until he had to stop and then go on the defence. Until that time his view was good to his right, but poor to his left, so he would be reluctant to move. c) What was Coghills job as senior officer in Pulleins command, baring in mind his incapacity with his knee off saddle?, in many respects being able to deliver specific orders to those company commanders who were out of eyeshot of the command tent. d) without doubt, the Command tent could see, quite clearly without even telescopes etc the Durnford was being over extended and the tide of the right horn were heading and extending past him, the naked eye even today is quite enough. The centre was hoding its own. e) Did Coghill (or anyone else.. in which case who) ride down to inform Pope of a strategic reposition, to close the inveitable plug in the far right of the line which would allow Durnford to slot in the gap to Popes Left. f) If Coghill did, and rode to a position that he was satisfied from his own observation would allow for a tactical line adjustment, what happens then?. Did he become cut off in the rapid dissolvement and left out on a limb, if he does, where does he go? g) Well, he could ride on the outside outer edge of the left horn enveloping movement, over Malhabamkhosi, with a view to getting back into the rear of the camp by outpacing the left horn. h) He gets over the lip of the range, only to find his re-entrant now being cut off by the right horn, so, he goes for broke and rides outside this rapidly closing pincer, until he begins to meet the first fugitves. He is now seen on the trail with others. OK debate this..I am off to Katmandu on a slow boat where I cant be found. |
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_________________ Neil |
HARMAN
Guest
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Interesting theory.
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Martin Everett
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Neil,
However we can do an indepth survey on the spot together in January and report back. |
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_________________ Martin Everett Brecon, Powys |
Mmm |
Leslie James Knight
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Thank you Neil i was losing the will to live..and who could shoot you down,it could all very well have played much like you discribe.Wolsley's remark's on Melvill and Coghill are well documented, and what a vain,waspy,bitchy little martinet he seems to be emerging as.but the fact remain's although the sighting's of Coghill were sparse i have to wonder just what was he doing that morning, anybdy who has had a badly wrenched knee knows the pain is so intense that any movment is to be avoided. his mate's knew it was a significant injury caused by Pat Daly.s Assagai/chicken.so did that mean he was on light duties hobbling about the camp,being more preferable to being mounted and the constant bumping of said knee.by the way i.m a rabid man city fan,i should be over the moon/parrot. but i just seem slightly forboding times.regard's Leslie.
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_________________ Regard's to all L.J.Knight |
Coghill - His Departure from Isandlwana Battlefield |
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