rorkesdriftvc.com :: View topic

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:21 pm

The British confiscated hundreds if not thousands of cattle from the Zulu�s
Some obviously were consumed by the troops

I read an account where some cattle were sold to a slaughter man for a very low sum of money who then sold the meat back to the army for a much larger sum.

I don�t believe for a minute that certain officials within the army / Government weren�t making some kind of profits from the cattle. The question is was the money being fed back into the army for urgently needed supplies or was it going through other routes i.e. personal bank accounts.

I see that accurate records were kept of cattle taken by the British. Who would have had access to these records? And were these records doctored to allow profits to be made.

I can�t remember the total cost of the Zulu Wars but I would imagine if the money for the cattle had been honesty distributed through the proper channels it would have contributed quite a lot to the cost of the war.

Or was it all legit.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:23 pm

Have a look at our South African Military History Society website and search for an article written by Commandant Justin Hulme (J L Hulme) on 'Loot Cattle'. It is pretty comprehensive.
Regards,
Ken

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:46 am

Peter

There's this from Hansard's, 22 June 1880, in a reply by the Secretary of State for War on that question -

"...As regards the captured cattle, I find that what took place was this:--Up to a certain date the captured cattle were sold on the spot, and the money realized irregularly distributed among the troops. In May, 1878, my predecessor instructed Lord Chelmsford to cease distributing the profits of sales of captured cattle, as it was open to grave political and military objections, offering as it did great temptation, especially to Colonial levies, to make predatory attacks, and to make the captured cattle their first consideration, instead of devoting their whole energies to inflicting loss on the enemy. He was, therefore, instructed either to slaughter them or hand them over to the Commissariat. There is no record in the War Office of any assessment by Military Boards of the value of cattle so captured. They were, whenever possible, given to the troops as extra meat ration..."

Of course that's a politician's reply!

Ken

I revisited the site in the interest of providing a link and was unable to locate the article you've referred to. It should be in the 'archives' section correct? It does sound like an interesting piece as Hulme's articles tend to be.

Best

Michael

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:33 pm

The whole matter of prize money came under close scrutiny again when Wolseley pressed the War Office to grant three months' pay to officers and men serving in the Zulu War in lieu of prize money and as compensation for wear and tear of clothing. (See WO 32/7783). The extent to which these matters were then debated within the bureaucracy is illustrated by the following, taken from that file:

"Sir G. Wolseley recommends the grant of 3 months pay to the Officers, N.C. officers & men of Her Majesty's Troops engaged in the late War against the Zulus, in lieu of prize money and as compensation for damage to Clothing.
If the question for consideration were confined to this recommendation we should merely have to consider:
1st. Whether any such grant is necessary.
2nd. To whom it shall be paid, i.e., to the Force engaged in Zululand only, or to the Forces employed throughout the whole of the disturbances in South Africa.
3rd. The period for which the grant shall be made.
In going through some of the correspondence connected with the War, I find that instructions (079/1202) were issued by Lord Chelmsford as to the disposal of Cattle and other prizes & for the distribution of the proceeds. That these reg�ns were in force until June 1879. (079/1310, /1755, 079/2068. Para. 20 of enclosure.)
On looking into some of the Accounts of non-effective officers & men belonging to those Regiments which have been in the recent operations in South Africa, I find that they were credited with Prize Money in sums varying from 10/9d to �3. 12. 10.
In regard to the Clothing, the Dir. of Clothing states that large supplies of Clothing &c. were sent out for the purpose of meeting the extra wear and tear entitled by active service.
Whether there has been an issue of prize money formally to effective officers* & men, & whether Clothing has been � distributed I cannot say, but I think the facts I have mentioned, if the question of granting pay is to be entertained at all, will necessitate further information from Sir G. Wolseley on the point.
The enclosed estimate shows the cost of granting an issue of pay for 1 & 3 months respectively. That estimate is expensive if any issue in respect of Officers, N.C. officers and men who have [illegible] or been [illegible].
The manner in which the prize money has apparently been distributed is, in my opinion, entirely at variance with the principles of the Prize Money Act � 2 Will�m, IV Cap 53 � with such in providing in the case of Captures in China formed the subject of discussion as will be seen by a reference to the papers annexed.
In the case of the War in Ashanti a month�s pay was issued, the Treasury reasoning the whole of the prize money accruing by the sale of the Captures."

KIS

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:17 am

An interesting paragraph from "The Mounted Police of Natal" by H. P. Holt, 1913, -

"In the meantime the infantry had destroyed Sirayo's kraal in the valley, and captured a large herd of cattle, which were sold to the butchers at 30s. each and bought back by the contractor at [18 pounds] each to feed the troops. This low price for the captured cattle was a sore point amongst the men, because though they made many large hauls some of them did not get a sovereign as their share at the end of the campaign."

In a footnote from "From Midshipman to Field Marshal" by Evelyn Wood, 1906 -

"When in December 1878 I was endeavouring to get Dutchmen to join, some queried my impartiality as Arbitrator in deciding claims for captured cattle--the South African form of prize money,--and I rejoined, "I'll not take any for my personal use." I gave my share towards erecting a memorial to Piet Uys in Utrect, and all the soldiers of the column contributed."

From a letter by Sir Hicks Beach to Sir Bartle Frere dated 20 Feb 1879 which apparently refers to the previous CFW and contains some rather remarkable allegations (from Parliamentary Papers, vol. 30 of 41, 1879) -

""There could have been no difficulty in supplying all the different troops engaged in the war with good and proper food from the thousands of cattle captured by the Police, [Frontier Armed and Mounted] but these animals were immediately hurried off by Government inspectors to the nearest frontier towns, and sold for the benefit of the Government, leaving the men who had fought for them to die of dysentery, or linger on, growing weaker day by day from fever, for want of the common necessaries of life, to those who had been reared in decent middle-class English homes..." [He goes on to offer a few specific examples without divulging any names.]

To expand a bit on Keith's post here's the rest of the previously cited question from Hansard's [My editorial bolds] -

"THE ZULU WAR--BATTA OR EXTRA PAY.

Sir H. Drummond Wolff asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether, in pursuance of the precedents of the Abyssinian and Ashantee Wars, her Majesty's Government intend to grant to the troops engaged in the late campaign in Zululand any batta or extra pay as compensation for the expenses and losses incurred while on that service; and, if it is the intention of the Government to give prize money for cattle captured from the enemy during the Zulu War, according to the values assessed by military Boards at the time of capture?

Mr. CHILDERS: In reply to my hon. Friend, I have to say that I have carefully looked into the decisions of my Predecessors on this subject, and I find that the precedents of the Abyssinian and Ashantee Wars were not considered in point. In the case of the Abyssinian War, batta, which is an allowance granted under Indian regulations, was only given to the troops because the expedition was organized in India, and the troops were on Indian pay and under Indian regulations, and it was only given in that instance because no previous notice had been given to the troops that it would not be granted. In Ashantee the prize was inconsiderable, and to avoid the expense and delay in its distribution a gratuity of a month's pay, which could be immediately issued, was given in lieu. I am not aware what the expenses and losses are to which the Question refers. As the troops received free rations of every sort, and the only expense would, I presume, be on account of the wear and tear of clothing; but on this point I find that large supplies of clothing, necessaries, and boots were sent out to replace losses, &tc., on purpose to obviate claims of compensation. Officers received extraordinary field allowance. Any losses incurred by them have been dealt with under Royal Warrant. I should mention that in 1878 the Treasury approved of a full ration being issued to troops on field service, free of stoppage, the main reason for this concession being that it would obviate the necessity for grants of boon pay."

[...Content of previous citataion...]

"...After the advance of the troops into Zululand the money value of these captures could have been little or nothing in an enemy's country, as there were naturally no purchasers; and the contractor was bound to have his own supply, regardless of any casual augmentation of this nature. Under these circumstances, I cannot hold out any hope of the decision of my Predecessor, either as to extra pay or prize money, being re-considered."

[Nice of them to stop charging soldiers for their combat rations anyway...wonder if they charged for combat field dressings!]

Best

Michael

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:14 pm

Thanks Michael
I knew I had read it somewhere.

"sold to the butchers at 30s. each and bought back by the contractor at [18 pounds] each to feed the troops"

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:11 pm

Peter

At risk of sounding like an agent for Ian Knight, I'd refer you (once again)to his "Companion to the Anglo Zulu War" which has a good overview on the question of cattle in the AZW.

Bill Cainan