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Gauntlets / Gloves
Jeremy Reynolds


Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Cornwall
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Hi Guys.
Does anyone have any information on whether the 17th Lancers
would have worn their gloves / gauntlets while on active service in Zulu-
land, or were they worn for ceremonial purposes only.
I`m finding it a little difficult getting information on the regiment as
it served in the Zulu War, any info would be greatley appreciated.
Thanks.
Jeremy Reynolds.
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Harold Raugh


Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 211
Location: Heidelberg, Germany (U.S. Army)
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Hello Jeremy,

I do not know if the following sources have the information you are looking for, but they may be worth looking at:

ffrench Blake, R.L.V. The 17th/21st Lancers, 1759-1993. N.p.: 1993.

Fortescue, J.W. A History of the 17th Lancers (Duke of Cambridge’s Own). London: Macmillan, 1895. Xv + 245 pp., 17 plates.

Knight, Ian. “Death or Glory in Zululand.” Military Illustrated 222 (November 2006).

Knight, Ian. “17th Lancers, Zululand, 1879.” Military Illustrated 10.

Regards,
Harold Raugh
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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 783
Location: Brecon
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There is fine illustration of a 17th Lancer in David Rattray's Soldier-Artist in Zululand - Artist WW Lloyd was known for his accuracy. Sorry I do not have a copy of the book in front of me to answer the question.

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Gauntlets / Gloves
Jeremy Reynolds


Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Cornwall
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Hi Guys,
Martin, Harold thanks for replying to my question.
I'm after as much information as possible on the 17th Lancers in the Zulu War as I`m in the midst of making a 1/6 scale figure of a Lancer, I have all the usual info, plastron reversal, helmet colour toned down etc, but there are some areas like the gauntlets, were they worn? Were they not worn?

This is difficult to find any information on.

I have various books, as we all do, on the 1879 conflict but I find that illustrations vary from book to book depending on whether they are painted by artists from the past or present.
Ospreys book British Forces In Zululand 1879 is a good example, one plate shows the death of Lt. Frith, the trooper in the picture is wearing two ammunition pouches on his waist belt, I have also been informed they wore only one pouch, on the right hand side of the waist belt.

So there you have it guys.....any piece of information you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

I knew it would have been much easier to have put together a figure from the 24th Regiment!!
Thanks in advance.
Jeremy
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Michael Boyle


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 595
Location: Bucks County,PA,US
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Jeremy

It seems they were referred to as gloves. When I search "gauntlets" in the period literature it yields no hits but "gloves" yields the proper reference. Judging from period illustrations I'd say that they were almost always worn and from personal experience I can say that one would have to be a callused individual indeed to spend hours a day riding and caring for the saddlery without them (not to mention handling a sword and lance on horseback I should think)! The following are some sites that may help.

http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol044cp.html

http://www.victorianstrollers.co.uk/stevesuniforms/lancer.html

Twelve pages of photos and illustrations from all periods -

http://news.webshots.com/album/55246472SnLkeT?start=0

And of course the famous lady lancer from circa 1900 -

http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/page16c-Girlin17thLancersUniform.html

Best

Michael
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Keith Smith


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 540
Location: Northern NSW, Australia
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Having looked at two pictures by Lloyd in David Rattray's fine book (pp. 122, 124, one of which is the famous one of the death of Lt Frith, I can advise that in neither does any Lancer wear gloves or even gauntlets.

Lloyd was known for the accuracy of his pictures and if they wore gloves, then you can bet he would have shown them.

KIS
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smithart101


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Location: Dorset UK
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don't know if this helps. Here's my reconstruction of a 17th lancer trooper.
I took guidance from a chap who reenacts this unit.
regards
Simon




[img][/img]


Last edited by smithart101 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mike snook 2


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 920
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Simon

Is this lovely work of yours, (Melvill and Cogill, Durnford, and now this) on the market yet? Where should one look to be rash with one's credit card. Or if not yet available, when and where will the place be?

As ever

Mike
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smithart101


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Location: Dorset UK
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Mike,

as always, thanks for the enthusiasm. Iam hoping to release the prints as a set, rather than individually, as it makes more sense from a printing point of view.
I have Christmas as my deadline and hope to have eight new zulu war subjects ready, so stand by! I will let you know exactly,nearer the time.
kindest regards
Simon

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mike snook 2


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 920
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Simon

Splendid. Look forward to seeing it [on my walls!].

As ever

Mike
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HARMAN
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The Lt.


Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 634
Location: Kittery, Maine USA
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Thought you'd you enjoy this photo of figure that was model representiing a mounted 17th Lancer and you'll note he's shown bare handed...The Lt.



Last edited by The Lt. on Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dawn


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 610
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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I'm sure that should be bare handed. Didn't think they wore bears Razz

Dawn
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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1179
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A woodcut from The Graphic showing Chelmsford and his "bodyguard" (the one captioned "Are those Zulu there?") shows only a few hands of the lancers, but those pictured definitely are not gauntleted. It's my understanding that these woodcuts were generally reproduced from the sketches of artists "in country", so they're probably as accurate as anything other than an actual photo.
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Sawubona


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1179
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Simon,

I know only enough to be dangerous, but your 17th Lancer appears to be armed with an 1885 Pattern cavalry saber with a sheet steel basket (the one with a maltese cross cutout) rather than the expected 1821 Pattern with a three bar basket. I know you're a stickler for accuracy, so you might explore that thought further for future reference.
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Gauntlets / Gloves
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