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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:17 am

In the Swiss cottage in the grounds of Osborne House there is a Zulu Shield.
It states that the shield was taken from the military kraal, and presented to Queen Victoria in 1879

When I got speaking to the English Heritage guide, she tells me that the shield was actually presented to the Queen by Cetshwayo himself at Osborne house.

Does anyone know the true facts? Who did present the Shield to the Queen?

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:56 am

Peter,

From the information I have I believe it was presented to Queen Victoria by King Cetshwayo kaMpande during his 1882 visit to England.

John Y.

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:04 pm

Thanks John. Manage to get a good photo of the shield

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:18 am

Hi Peter,
I managed to get some photo's of the shields at Osborne but had to use a telephoto from outside and shoot through the door because I believe photography isn't generally allowed there. English Heritage rules and all that. John Young is no doubt right about one of them being a gift from King Cetshwayo, but I always thought they were gifted by officers of the 13th Regiment, spoils of war and all that.
John, would the King have had access to shields and suchlike during his captivity? Interesting point.
Regards
David

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:04 pm

I also took a photo from outside, as there is no photography inside and it was better than I expected.
It was in such good condition just wish it was on ground level.

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:26 pm

David,

I don't wish to steal anyone's thunder, but I think something may be in the offing regarding the story of shield which King Cetshwayo presented to Queen Victoria, if it happens then, hopefully, all will be revealed.

John Y.

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:20 pm

John when is this likely to take place.
And can you give us any more clues as to what might be revealed.

I just hope David and me are not going to get arrested for taking unauthorised photos.

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:13 am

Thanks John,looking forward to that.
Peter, do you think they will put us in the tower? Actually, I was told that one could definitely not photograph inside the building, but that there should be no problem from outside. Whether this is true or not I am not sure.
Here in Nottingham we have a Zulu shield on display at Nottingham Castle in the Sherwood Forester's museum. There is a blanket ban on photography here now as well, although I photographed it before the restriction came into force.
According to the old inscription, this was allegedly King Cetshwayo's personal shield. I have always doubted this because it is the wrong colour for a personage of his standing. It is uniform dark brown. Not even uThulwana. I think this may have belonged to Col. John North Crealock, for the museum holds other items of his, including his watercolours. It may well have come from the homestead where he was captured, or indeed, anywhere. The above provenance no longer accompanies the shield. Also present is a spear with a slightly bent blade which allegedly came from the iTyotyosi donga where the Prince Imperial was killed. Again, is this true? Who knows?
David

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:43 pm

Peter & David,

I can't say any date as soon as I have any confirmation about the matter I'll make sure it is posted.

There is a shield in a national museum in the U.K., with a degree of provenance to its history, which may well be a shield that once belonged to King Cetshwayo kaMpande.

As to bent spears I discovered another one last month in the Musee d'Armee, Paris, along with two others 'throwers' and the Prince Imperial's Full Dress R.A. uniform. That makes about ten I know of; clumsy lot those Zulu leaving all those spears behind!

John Y.

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:18 am

Hi John,
Thank you for the information. I would like to see the King's? shield. Do you know which museum holds it? I too have often wondered about all these spears left behind. If it was a Zulu defeat, this is understandable, but with a victory? Spears are neither cheap nor easy to make and therefore would no doubt be prized by their owners. It does make one wonder about such provenances.
Regards
David

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:00 pm

John. Are you saying the shield at Osborne house that was presented to the Queen by King Cetshwayo kaMpande was not his shield.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:45 pm

David,

The shield is not on display, it is merely in the collection of a national museum, and at the present time I'd rather not say where it is as an approach has been made by both a representive the Zulu Royal House and a well-known British Army General, either to display the shield or return it to the Zulu Nation.

Peter,

It was his shield in so much that it was his to present; I hope that makes sense?

John Y.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:43 pm

Yes Thanks John

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:35 pm

True Story. Someone might be interested (I Hope)

Back in the eighties I was employed as a security supervisor working at Dover Castle.
It was either the Royal Green Jackets or the Irish Ranger can�t remember which but they were stationed at Dover.

The Brigadier of the regiment was housed in the Constables Tower, which is with-in the ground of Dover Castle.

Any way I was doing my routine patrols (Security talk for the security pro�s) when I came across this Brigadier who was dressed in a long white bed gown and riding his bicycle around in circles just outside the front door of constables tower.
I said good evening and got talking to him. He asked me if I knew any history relating to constable tower and invited me in.

In the main living area was a large fireplace and on the wall above the fireplace was glass cabinet, which contained two swords and a broken sword, I made some comment about them.

Anyway he opens the glass case and hands me one of the swords a Sabre I think ,its was quite heavy we went back outside and he said have ago, so there I was waving this sword about standing next to a Brigadier wearing a long scrooge like bed gown.

He then says that sword was his Great Grandfathers or Great Great Grandfathers. Can�t remember which. Then he asks if I had heard of the charge of the light brigade.

It turns out that the sword I was swinging around was actually used by his ancestor who took part in the charge of the light brigade down the valley of death.
The other Sword belonged to a Sergeant who saved his Grand Father, and the blade of the broken sword remained in the Russian it was used on.

Now that was a great feeling to actually hold a piece of history. It was there, it was used and it was brought back

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:27 pm

Hi all

Sorry, I originally posted this response in the Uniforms,Equipment and Weapons Section by error !

There are pictures of two of these shields in Ian Knight's "Brave Mens' Blood" and in John Laband's booklet "Battle of Ulundi"

Bill