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Who comanded what?
a.j


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 80
Location: Thornaby-On-Tees, Great Britain
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I have believed fo a long time that Lt. Cavaye commanded A company during the battle of Isandlwana and Lt. Porteous commanded E company. But in 'Zulu Victory The Epic Of Isndlwana And The Cover-Up' by Ron Lock and Peter Quantrill says that it is the other way round.

Also it says A Company is where Company F was and vice versa.

All the other company commanders are the same as in other books apart from those two.

So who commanded what and what comapnies were where?
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Keith Smith


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 540
Location: Northern NSW, Australia
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I am afraid that ZV1 has it wrong! According to F.W.D. Jackson, on whom you can rely, Porteous had A while Cavaye had E.
KIS
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I've always been of the opinion, through reading my books, that Porteous was in command of 'A' Company.

However, when I mentioned in the old forum that Degacher (Acting Major) may have been near to Pulleine, Melvill, etc., as decisions were being made during the battle, I was informed there was the possibility Degacher was in the firing line, commanding 'A' Company ?

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a.j


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
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Location: Thornaby-On-Tees, Great Britain
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In Ian Knights book 'Isandlwana 1879 The Great Zulu Victory' Cavaye has command of A Company and Porteous has command of E Company. Am I safe in presuming that Knight has it wrong?
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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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Location: Brecon
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Strangly the Historical Records of the 24th - published in 1892 has Cavaye commanding A Company and Porteous with Dyson commanding E Company. We now believe this was incorrect. Mike Snook has William Degacher (with Porteous) commanding A Company with Cavaye with E Company which follows David Jackson.

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a.j


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 80
Location: Thornaby-On-Tees, Great Britain
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Are the movements of companies different then e.g. is A Company where E Company is and vice versa?
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Keith Smith


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 540
Location: Northern NSW, Australia
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One needs to be aware that a company was normally led by a captain. Both Porteous and Cavaye were lieutenants, so it would not be surprising to find Degacher in command. A number of companies in the 24th were led by lieutenants, of which the best known was, of course, Bromhead and his B compnay, 2/24th.
KIS
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Andrew Bush


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 66
Location: Melbourne Australia
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According to A Greaves in CTB, Younghusband was in charge of E company sent up to support Cavaye and Mostyn so who was in charge of A , E and F more confusionI take it, Cavaye A and Mostyn F?? .what company was Dyson in charge of, Greaves does not give a name on page 126

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Keith Smith


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 540
Location: Northern NSW, Australia
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Andrew

I really urge you to buy Jackson's 'Hill of the Sphinx'! In the meantime, to answer your questions:

A. Lt Porteous
E. Lt Cavaye, with Sub Lt Dyson
F. Capt. Mostyn, with Lt Daly

Captain Younghusband was in command of C Company, with Lt Hodson.

Be careful with the two battlions, which shared the same company numbers. Only G Company, 2/24th was at Isandlwana, (Lts Pope and Godwin-Austen.
KIS
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Andrew Bush


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 66
Location: Melbourne Australia
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Keith,

Which Company was Younghusband commanding or what men did he take up to the ridge . if you look at page 70 of Jackson book it states Younghusband as an officer of the 2nd 24th not the 1st 24th

The other issue I have with his book is that on page 39 he reflects Smith actuall moving his guns approx 2000 yards in front of Pope where as most other authors or guides state the guns were turned not moved to cover Durnford

Kind regards,

Andrew

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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 783
Location: Brecon
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Parade State on 22 January

Staff Glyn (No. 3 Column Comd) (with Chelmsford), Coghill at Isandhlwana
1st Battalion 24th Foot
HQ Pulleine (CO), Degacher W, Melvill (Adjt), White (Pmr), Pullen (QM), Sergt-Major Gapp at Isandhlwana
A Porteous at Isandhlwana
B Harrisson, Spring, Roche at Fort Harrisson, Southern Natal/Pondoland border
C Younghusband, Hodson at Isandhlwana
D Upcher, Heaton, Lloyd at Helpmekaar
E Cavaye, Dyson at Isandhlwana
F Mostyn, Anstey, Daly at Isandhlwana arrived 21 January
G Rainforth, Clements, Palmes at Helpmekaar
H Wardell, Atkinson at Isandhlwana
Band At Isandhlwana

2nd Battalion 24th Foot
HQ Degacher HJ (CO), Dunbar, Black, Trower, Phipps, Weallens, Sergt-Major Hogan with Chelmsford’s Column
A Tongue with Chelmsford’s Column
B Bromhead at Rorke’s Drift
C Williams with Chelmsford’s Column
D Penn Symons, Franklyn with Chelmsford’s Column
E Logan with Chelmsford’s Column
F Church, Mainwaring, Dobree with Chelmsford’s Column
G+ Pope, Godwin-Austen F, Dyer (Adjt), Griffiths (Transport)* Bloomfield (QM) at Isandhlwana
*Initially with Chelmsford
H Harvey, Banister, Curll with Chelmsford’s Column
Band Bandmaster Bullard (at Isandlwana) Band with Chelmsford’s
Mounted Infantry 1 Sqn - Browne In the vicinity of Chelmsford’s Column
Mounted Infantry 2 Sqn - Sugden attached No. 1 Column (Possibly at Fort Pearson)

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Andrew Bush


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 66
Location: Melbourne Australia
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Thanks Martin


Andrew

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Keith Smith


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 540
Location: Northern NSW, Australia
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Martin

Thanks (phew!)

Andrew
The photograph shows the officers in 1871, not 1879. It was common for officers to move from one battalion to another. You should also check the scale on the map showing the movement of the gun - according to my ruler he moved about 700-800 yards. Curling wrote "In about a quarter of an hour Major Smith took away one gun to the right as the enemy were appearing in large numbers in the direction of the Drift in the stream in front of the camp." That is just what Jackson shows.
KIS
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An Apology
Keith Smith


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 540
Location: Northern NSW, Australia
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In my first post in reply to 'aj' who began this thread, I said that RL and PQ in ZV1 had it wrong in their assignment of companies to Cavaye et al. In fact, it was 'aj' who had it wrong and ZV1 was perfectly correct (see p. 192). My apologies to Ron and Peter - I could have saved us all a bit of trouble if I had checked ZV1 first before opening my big mouth. Embarassed
KIS
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Julian whybra


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 436
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And so that confused readers get it utterly right...
the line up from west to east was...
C coy Younghusband
F coy Mostyn
E coy Cavaye
A coy Degacher
H coy Wardell
G coy Pope
composite coy Dyer
...which all goes to show the perils of reading poorly-researched works!
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Who comanded what?
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