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99th collar badge and the 24ths headquarters flag
smithart101


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Location: Dorset UK
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Hello everyone

this is my first post so here goes!
can anyone help me with a picture of the collar badge of the 99th regiment in 1879?
Also does anyone know what the 24ths headquarters flag would have looked like at Isandlwana?
thanks in anticipation!!
Simon
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NTaylor


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 15
Location: North West England
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Welcome to the board!

I can help with the 99th collar badges:

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Cheers,
Nick.
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smithart101


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Location: Dorset UK
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Thanks Nick
absolutely brilliant!

Simon
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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 784
Location: Brecon
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Simon,

If it was uncased. it was Queen's Colour 1/24th - the Union Colour.

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Martin Everett
Brecon, Powys
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smithart101


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Location: Dorset UK
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Martin
thanks for that.
How would the uncased Flag have been set up? If you have Ian Knights Osprey title' British forces in Zululand ,1879' on page 21 there is a group set up.
I assume a single flag would not have been stuck into the ground as this would damage the end cap?
The one on Page 149 of 'Brave mens Blood' is simply on a stick.

Simon

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Martin Everett


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 784
Location: Brecon
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Simon,

They might have had a metal/wooden stand to display the Colour. The Regimental Colour 1/24th was at Helpmekaar. My point about being the Colour being cased was that it was possible that it being held inside a tent and not on display. Unlike today, the Colour pike in those days was one piece - 8 feet 10 inches which may have prevented the Colour being held inside a tent.

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Martin Everett
Brecon, Powys
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mike snook 2


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 920
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Careful of false trails here chaps - obviously a headquarters flag and a set of colours are not the same thing. We would have a regimental flag of a particular design today, which typically flies over the main guard, or at Battalion HQ, which of course is just a flag and is not venerated in the same way as the colours. But I am not aware that they had such things as a regimental flag in the 24th in 1879 and certainly have never seen anything which might suggest a design. I'm open to perusasion on this, but certainly nothing occurs straightaway to me personally.

In the field in pre-1881 times (colours no longer being carried on active service thereafter) you might have the colours on display, in front of the OC's or Officers Mess Tent, in the manner shown in that Osprey book (if I am thinking of the right image), if the weather was good and no movements were anticipated that day- i.e.. an idle day in camp.

If the camp in question is Isandlwana, and in this query that is a given, then the colours were not on display and certainly not marking any HQ locations. At the time of the battle the Queen's Colour was cased and in the guard tent - which is not at all the same thing as a 'headquarters' tent. The Regimental Colour 1/24 was back at Helpmekaar with Major Upcher's and Captain Rainforth's companies. Both colours of 2/24 were in the camp at Isandlwana, but with the OC and bulk of the battalion being away from the site, it can be safely assumed that the 2nd Bn Colours were also cased, inside a tent, and under guard.

It is known that an ordinary union flag flew over Lord Chelmsford's headquarters tent - or might it actually have been the No 3 Column Headquarters tent?

Finally, I think it necessary to tread carefully around the idea of a headquarters tent for battalions. After all they had no headquarters staff as a modern battalion does. I think the OC's own tent would be about as close as you would get - I imagine the battalion's business being conducted by the OC and the Adjt under an awning in front of the OC's tent. The front of the Officers Mess Tent might double up for briefings and so forth. Whether it might fly any sort of flag is debatable. I fancy a union flag in some cases and nothing in others. But there is no data available that I know of which will answer what was flying outside a. Colonel Pulleine's tent b. Outside the 24th Mess Tent. c. Outside the Guard Tent. ....the inference being therefore that there was probably nothing flying in these locations.

As ever

Mike
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99th collar badge and the 24ths headquarters flag
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