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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:57 am

As a temporary break from AZW I am currently reading Khartoum by Michael Asher.

In his book Asher states that Redvers Buller was an alcoholic.
Having read many books on AZW, and indeed Boer War, where Buller obviously features heavily I have never previously noted Buller being described as such.

Can any of the eminent contributors to this forum provide confirmation of Mr Ashers statement, and possibly any primary source for this.

Best regards
Peter S

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:38 am

Peter

I don't know about being an alcoholic but there are many well known references to Buller's prodigious appetite for champagne. Who knows if these are reliable or are simply repeating each other until they become a "well known fact"?

Asher dwells on Buller's "alcoholism" twice in the text and hints at it again in his epilogue. I'm slightly surprised that his claim that Buller was, in 1884 "by now far gone into alcoholism" is not supported by even the briefest footnote. In his Buller's Campaign (1963) Julian Symons refers to his considerable capacity for eating and drinking, and presumably Asher has a source for Buller's commandeering of half the camels in Egypt just to carry his hooch, but guessing which work in his bibliography isn't easy!

Wolseley laid the blame for Buller's notorious and disastrous after dinner speech in 1901 on the latter having had "too much champagne on board" - and he knew him as well as anybody. Of course, the term "alcoholic" is used much more freely now than it was then, when having the ability to take on huge (to us) amounts of drink in the mess or elsewhere was probably perfectly acceptable provided one could "hold your drink" and avoid public indiscretions, as well as appear stone cold sober the minute one needed to. Today's scientists would argue that everyone's performance is affected in some way if they drink alcohol - but that's today.

I suppose if Buller did feel he couldn't go on campaign in the desert without huge supplies of champagne in tow, he may have been "reliant" on alcohol. Anyone else have a reliable source? The interesting thing was that the officers who imbibed so well still felt that the men had to be kept away from the beastly stuff for their own good!

To be honest, I think the War Office feud of the '90s was probably enough to drive anyone to drink, so perhaps Buller, who didn't come out of that too well, was simply getting his preparations in early!

Peter

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:56 am

Peter,

I'm away from my books at present, but I've got a vague recollection of the large amount of champagne that Buller took to the field with in the Sudan, I assume he might have drawn his conclusion from that.

I think the subject of his drinking/good living reared its head in a television documentary, from about two years ago, which applied it contributed to his dramatic weight-gain between 1879 & 1899. I found the documentary so poor I didn't bother adding the recording to my collection.

Sorry best I can do for now.

John Y.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:08 pm

Peter S,

I've checked this book myself, now.

Can we actually place any credence in Michael Asher's remarks? In the preceding paragraph to his alcoholic claim, he makes two glaring errors. Firstly, he has the Red River Expedition taking place in 1861, rather than 1870. Secondly, and very worrying as to his sources, he has Buller's V.C. action against the Kaffirs, rather than the Zulu! Given that Asher's book was written in 2005, how could he use this abhorrent term in relation to native southern Africans? It is tactless enough to use it given the nature of his work!

John Y.

(Peter E., You beat me to it with your reply, as I'm having to text my answers via my telephone!)

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:56 pm

hmmmm..To be described by someone as an "alcoholic" is a pretty loaded description but perhaps it's possible that the author is already cognizant that Buller was a controversial military personage as a result of his participation in the Boer War even as he did win a VC in the Zulu War and getting a knighthood.

I've read that a while back there was even a suggestion by a denizen of his town (Exeter) to have his statue removed and bringing with it indignation.

He also doesn't have a nice citation in "Brewer's Rogues, Villians and Eccentrics: An A-Z of Roguish Britons Through The Ages" by William Donaldson (Cassell). An example: his idea of fair play was that "the enemy should stand in the open and be shot down by British rifles" and that "his command of the expedtionary force against the Boers in South Africa brought a new level of ineptitude to the British war effort.

Would be good to know if there is a bio out there to explore this general.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:44 pm

Rich

I'm sure there is a better book out there, but I saw this title from Pen and Sword books, when I was finding out about the book on Wood, mentioned in the book section -

Buller : A Scapegoat ?
by Geoffrey Powell.

Don't know anything about it, so it may be a bad suggestion.

Perhaps someone can add more details.

Coll

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:58 pm

I think that's a bio, right?

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:31 pm

It appear to be, as the book cover also says -

'A Life Of General Sir Redvers Buller V.C.'

I think it was (first) published in 1994.

Coll

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:49 pm

Yes it is a bio and a good one too.

I've reflected on some of this stuff in 'Into the Jaws of Death'. There is no doubt that Buller the Lt Col and Buller VC the general were two different people. Certainly he got used to fine living, and certainly his personal baggage on the Nile campaign caught people's eye. An invitation to dine with Buller in the desert was a guarantee of a good feed. One of his dinner guests in the Sudan (see my new book for the story/quote/source) refers to 'fizz ad lib'. He was certainly drunk (but 'drunk' is always to be regarded as a relative term) when he made the speech that ended his career - but it was the content rather than his state which brought the wrath of HMG down upon him.

I have referred before on here to Norman Dixon's 'On the Psychology of Military Incompetence'. He puts a long dead Buller onto his pscyiatrist's (never could spell that word!) couch and suggests that Buller was sexually stimulated by killing. Powell takes violent exception to this - and I agree with Powell and say so in my new book.

One thing I would never be prepared to shift on is what a fearful pig's ear he made of Colenso. People have come up with excuses to shield him by blaming others but they are only excuses and don't hold water. It was a horribly inept performance. He drank afterwards - he always drank - but then he went on to send some ruinous telegrams in which I am sure some combination of mental/moral collapse and drink all played a part.

He also distorted the truth in testifying before the Royal Commission convened to investigate the Boer War, and blamed others shamelessly in attempt to evade responsibility. That I'm afraid is prett hard to forgive in a general. Redvers Buller - alcoholic - don't know - only his long dead doctor could tell us that - but he was certainly a regular and heavy drinker - and the Buller of 1899 was not the man we know from 20 years earlier. A fascinating case-study in declining powers.

Regards

Mike

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:35 pm

Mike..Re: Redvers Buller..

You appear to have put it pretty well regarding Buller's approach to his work and I'd say it certainly points to his failures in command. A man can only go so high before he comes to limitations. Limitations that he probably isn't aware of until it's too late:

"It is clear that the skill sets are required at various levels of command are distincly different , and that widely lauded success in intermediate tasks can breed great personal failings such as conceit, stubborness and a reluctance either to seek or accept advice at more senior levels". ITJOD.p398.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:22 pm

Hi Rich

I think it says intermediate 'ranks' rather than 'tasks', but yes, that is what I think one infers from the Buller case. And the thing was he knew himself that he wasn't up to it - but he was pushed forward by my friend 'ghastly Garnet!!'

As ever

Mike

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:09 pm

Col Snook
I am still waiting for your book I am beginning to think that it will never arriv�
Clive Crying or Very sad

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:39 pm

All,

Colonial Africa required some pretty hard men to shape it - I would suggest that few of us today would not be surprised at what these gentlemen got up to, let alone how much they drank. You don�t make history by being a choir boy!

Buller was a regular officer in the British Army and well known as a superb fighter - and a VC bares that out. However, as Col Mike has already stated and it has been said elsewhere previously, whilst Buller was a superb major/Lt Col, he was lacking the 'edge' that is required of a successful General. I think I am correct in saying that Buller himself recognised this when he at first declined the position of command in South Africa when he was GOC in Aldershot in 1899, stating that he was too old.

AMB

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:06 pm

Clive

Steady on old chap....stiff upper lip...don't let the men see you cry. UK launch is middle of next month after the bookshops have cleared out all that celebrity bilge the publishing fraternity inflicted on us over Christmas. You know - such literary classics as

I'm on telly so read my book
My celebrity life on telly
I'm in a TV soap so buy my book
I'm on telly doing the gardens
I'm on telly helping him doing the gardens but I'm cashing in too
I'm on telly doing the cooking I
I'm on telly doing the cooking II
I'm on telly doing the cooking III
I'm on telly doing the cooking IV
I'm on telly doing the cooking V
I'm a rockstar high on drugs
I was a rockstar high on drugs
Rockstar! High on Drugs!
I am the half-witted progeny of a rockstar high on drugs
I'm on telly coz I've got bigger ones than her
I'm a patronising Irish bloke on the telly but all your grandmas love me and buy my books so it would be daft not to get another one out at Xmas
I'm on telly - see I can read and write too.
I'm on telly because I slept with 46 producers to get there
I'm a footballer's wife but I've hired a ghost writer
I was beaten as a child but now I'm on telly
My life in the gutter before I got on telly
I scored for Blackington Rovers in the Quarter-Final of the FA Cup 1978 (which was on the telly)
I drive cars fast so my book is bound to be good.

Don't worry - it'll all be over soon and they'll be carting them off to that big remainder book-shop in the sky, while all the ghost writers are knocking out next year's Christmas books and looking for a name to insert in the blanks.

Celebrity culture. Pah!! Rolling Eyes

As ever

M

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:44 pm

Colonel Mike,

Having seen Tim Collins on the Discovery Channel yesterday, I take it that you are not planning a TV series then?! ~:o)
AMB