Galloglas
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As examples of modern formal policy for all 3 armed forces:
WEARING OF MEDALS 1213. Only those medals awarded to the individual are to be worn. 1214. Medals awarded to the individual are to be worn in accordance with Joint Service Publication 336 Volume 12: Supply Chain Instructions for the LAND Environment on one row on the left hand side of the chest (only the Life Saving Medal of the Order of St John, The Royal Humane Society medals, Stanhope Gold Medal and the medal of The Royal National Lifeboat Institution may be worn on the right side of the chest). When medals cannot, on account of their number, be suspended from the brooch so as to be fully seen, they are to overlap with the first medal fully exposed. Care is to be taken that the obverse is showing and not the reverse. WEARING OF MEDALS AFTER LEAVING THE SERVICE 1220. While on leaving the Service personnel cease to be bound by these instructions, they are expected to conform to the general instructions published in the London Gazette and in particular not to add any order, decoration, medal or emblem to which they are not verifiably entitled or which has not been approved for acceptance and wear. The wearing of unauthorised awards is a grave discourtesy to Her Majesty The Queen. G |
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Peter Ewart
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G
A very clear explanation, sensitively and fairly put. Thanks - and also for the up-to-date position (from QRs?). Saw - I think the Medal of Honor regulations you have described have much to commend them. Firstly, because they are crystal clear and allow for no ambiguity. Secondly, because there is a positive attempt to demonstrate that the rules are strict specifically to promote or support the uniqueness and prestige of the award. I suspect - like most "rules & regs" this side of the pond - our present position has developed gradually by custom & convention, periodically ratified or clarifed by KRs/QRs, WO/MoD decrees etc., etc. As a lifelong civvy with no personal experience of these things but a very close interest, I'd consider a tightening up of the VC (at the very least) regulations to be in everyone's interest. For what it's worth, I'd allow widows* only to wear a VC, if that. No duplicates/replicas to be worn, other than by the recipient. Campaign medals or other awards to be worn only by the recipient's immediate family - siblings; own children - in agreed, limited circumstances at appropriate, official occasions only. But I'd agree that there is a good case for insisting that a VC or duplicate should only ever be worn by the recipient himself.* Peter * or widowers * or herself (The day will come, I suppose). |
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peterw
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These things seem straight-forward and they are not.
The wearing of ancestors' medals (on the right breast) has never bothered me in the past. Sometimes the originals will have been lost so a duplicate/copy set is worn. OK.......... But, what happens, for the sake of argument, when more than one descendant wants to wear the medals? Three or four people could be chinking along wearing identical sets. I have my grandfather's WW2 medals (unmounted) and have never worn them. He survived the war. I also have the medals to a local man killed during WW1. On Remembrance Day I tuck these into an inside pocket and take them to the service. The Falkland Islands Memorial Chapel is close to me, and commemorates, among others, the 14 men of HMS Glamorgan killed on 13 June 1982 when it was hit by a shore-based Exocet missile. HMS Glamorgan is the only ship ever to have survived such an attack. When I visited the chapel on the anniversary of the attack, I took with me the South Atlantic Medal to one of the men who fought the fire that day, and placed it briefly on the memorial of stones. So we all honour those who have passed in our different ways. Peter |
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Colin Fielding
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Obviously the wearing of medals not earned by myself has caused negative debate and that was never the intended target. Easy way out of this for me for the future is to keep what I have to myself. So that's one less redcoat on the scene for the general public to continue or initiate an interest in these epic battles. I am just a very proud descendant, not a re-enactor, I take my hat (pith helmet ) off to those who do know enough detail about life in Victoria's Army to put on an accurate display.I'm just trying to add what I can. No one at any event that I have ever attended in uniform has even thought about questioning any right to wear replica medals. I come home hoarse after most events having spent two/three days chatting with the general public in positive and hopefully, informative ,
discussion. It's not my red tunic either , nor the trousers, or the boots but it seems OK to wear them so where is the line drawn? Damned if I know, but anyway, that's immaterial as they will be staying in the wardrobe now. Good luck to those who continue. Regards and ta ta , Col. |
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Alan
Site Admin
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Colin,
you should carry on exactly as you were. No one ever imagines that you are a VC holder. It is right that you should wear the cross to make people aware of your connection to a person who is being remembered. You should not be affected by any suggestions that it is not 'quite right'. I for one would think it a great pity if you stopped doing your bit. You are one of the most genuine people I know and your attendance at various events is much appreciated. |
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peterw
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Here's another example of wearing medals to honour those who are no longer here.
One man recently discovered his great-grandfather was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal at the age of 53 for two acts of gallantry in Burma in WW2. One act involved repulsing a Japanese ambush and recovering the bodies of his comrades. The descendant was able to trace the names of those killed that day and contacted a number of relatives, including a widow and two brothers. He has since met the widow. I understand that all involved have been very moved by the experience to keep strong the memories of the dead. The DCM descendant has also joined the Gallantry Medallists' League and may be invited to walk past the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday. He will wear a replica set as the originals have long since left the family. Honouring yesterday's warriors takes many different forms, and we should each do what is right for us as individuals. Peter |
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Galloglas
Guest
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What people actually do is ultimately up to them. However it's clearly wise to be aware of what is generally deemed to be conventional and orthodox and what might not be.
Modern practice is often divergent from the rigorously formal and traditional ways of the past. More's the pity in several respects. What might the men being commemorated think? In a way, and rather like the enemy in modern counter-insurgency operations they 'have a vote' too. Meaning no discourtesy, I have no idea who Colin Fielding is and can only wish him well in the choices he makes. G |
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Directions to Pte Savage grave. |
Colin Fielding
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Scorer, as requested.
The plot number is R464. Entrance is most easily gained via the entrance on Allensbank Road, though the parking is best near the Chapels on Fairoak Road. I can send you a map via e-mail if you wish. Regards, Col. |
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rich
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Again, I don't think it better in any way--just peculiar that Yanks who aren't seemingly as tradition driven as Brits have so much more draconian rules. Why is that I wonder to myself wonder I?
You know we may have "draconian" rules about those medals but what gets me is that it doesn't deter those infamous impersonators who go around wearing all those bravery medals at military affairs basking in the adulation they might receive for being "in the battle cauldron" so to speak. Some have no compunction in doing it. I'm not sure to what exent it occurs in Britain but it sure does happen here. |
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_________________ Rich |
Sawubona
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Colin, I (for one) consider your wearing of your ancestor's VC respectful and perfectly acceptable. I hope you didn't misinterpret my observations on our own laws concerning our MOH to be any sort of negative judgement on you. It's great that you can brush off the dust and display it among the hoi polloi and I'm guessing that the ranker who earned it would have felt the same.
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Its that man again! |
John Young
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Saint Margaret's Church, Westminster last night hosted a Help for Heroes event, when Rob Caskie of Fugitives' Drift Lodge gave a lecture on Rorke's Drift. There was I in my own little world admiring the surroundings when a hand reached over from the pew behind me and tapped me on the shoulder, when I turned around I discovered the ubiquitous Colin Fielding!
Rob played to a packed house, and certainly managed to enthral the Dean of Westminster, John Hall, as I discovered afterwards in a discussion with the Dean. To Rob and all those involved in organising the event well done for raising funds for such a worthy cause! To the rest of you, where were you? I'll accept no excuses! You still have a chance to redeem yourselves by attending Rob's concluding talks at: Tuesday 28th June 2011, Brecon Cathedral, Brecon Thursday 30th June 2011, @Bristol (That's the name of the venue), Bristol Friday 1st July 2011, Caerhays Castle, Mevagissey Times vary according to venue, see website for more detail: www.h4hzuluwartalks.co.uk John Y. |
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Re: Directions to Pte Savage grave. |
The Scorer
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Yes, please, I'd appreciate that - you can PM me with it if it's possible - thanks! |
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pte. savage location |
Colin Fielding
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Scorer; will do asap, PC at work has thrown a strop !
Regards, Col. |
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Re: pte. savage location |
The Scorer
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Ah, this new technology ..... bring back the quill pen, is what I say - thanks! |
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Edward Savage |
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