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Discussions related to the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879
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Colin


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 74
Location: U.K.
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From recent books I've read this year, there was a comment that stood out along the lines of - a battlefield 'belongs' to the victors as long as they remain in possession of it.

Silence from the 'losers' says a great deal in itself, if silent now they will remain so throughout, else they'd have been heard from the start, so confidence in the development will have grown, hence my concern of where will it stop.

There was a term used to describe the British defending a lot of 'real estate' during the battle that couldn't be held because of the strength and numbers of those opposed to them, forcing a retreat, back to the camp area, which curiously now is still defended, the 'outside' area lost.

You have to ask yourself the hard question, is the development 'aimed' also at British visitors, or is it shutting them out ?
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Alan
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1365
Location: Wales
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We are all fully aware that in this country, any interest in anything to do
with our colonial past only indicates that we are all land grabbing mass murdering racists.
People are therefore wary of saying anything which could be misinterpreted.

Over the years, a great bond has been built between Britain and the Zulu people. I have never
experienced anything other than a genuine friendship between the two sides. However, those
people were not politicians or those in charge. What we're seeing is an agenda which aims to show
the Zulu nation in a very good light. This is fair but if they are doing so by avoiding the opinions
of the opponents focusing on one of the battles, it is very unfortunate.

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Colin


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 74
Location: U.K.
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In 1879 the British Government didn't want a war with the Zulus, because their hands were full with other 'situations' abroad.

When seeing today what is going on politically again with 'situations' elsewhere outside (and inside) of this country, is any genuine thought really given to 'old' history by the powers that be, when future history is being decided right now ?

It's an uneasy feeling, if looking upon this moment at Isandhlwana through a cold and detached position, if we were ever to be told the unsaid majority view is - 'the battlefield is theirs...give it to them'.

If there is a strong bond between Britain and the Zulu people, should this bond itself be enough for the former to give up any rights to demonstrate against what is happening, therefore preventing anything that would threaten this friendship.
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 952
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Alan,

I am happy to pose your question to Gugu, should you so desire?

Or we could wait until the meeting takes place in London this month. That way we will have the input from a member of the Royal House as to the current state of play.

JY
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Alan
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 1365
Location: Wales
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John, I trust your judgement on these matters.

Colin, what is happening politically now does not affect the facts of 1979. It does alter the attitudes
of people today who want to respect the memories of those who took part. The conflict was caused
by politicians and not by the combatants which is what this is all about.

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Colin


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 74
Location: U.K.
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Alan - yes I understand the concept of what is involved, but apart from what you and John - who appear to be very actively engaged in this, and have the necessary contacts and meetings with those concerned - in what way could others in the RDVC assist, as they are powerless ?

Was it specific members or ex-members you sought, who are known to have connections to organisations, etc., or are themselves considered influential enough to help make the case against the development stronger ?

This situation is beyond enthusiasts interested in the Zulu War, with no experience of political or legal matters, nor it seems any of their own connections by the obvious lack of input.

If there is anyone qualified enough to assist, they may prefer to refrain from posting on this topic, lest disclosing personal thoughts they wish to remain private, but unless we know of them as members, many will feel defeated already.

No other well-known names have appeared from the AZW Community, publicly that is, to let the majority of unseen and so far mostly unheard members be aware of how many are in this 'fight' (for want of a better word) to be assured there is a strong group, from the UK anyway, devoting time from their lives (and careers) in this.

I myself am an avid enthusiast, but can do nothing and say nothing, and if others here are of similar ilk, there is a good chance, that the lack of the above people's presence, means the latter do not wish to be involved, in that case, the harsh impression given is that they think it is either no use, nor worth the effort.

I hate such a (possible) defeatist attitude and wish I was a person of greater note, with the ability to make things happen for the benefit of all on both sides, but alas, I'm a mere mortal not amounting to much for something of such importance as this, which is very close to my heart.

I wish others would express their thoughts to us more, even privately, to get a 'feel' for the support, but I'm assuming that is also lacking, which is a sad day indeed.

I can only wish yourselves the best of luck in this, and to know you have my full support, but I myself will have to stick to what I know - reading my books, posting on topics, etc
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John Young


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 952
Location: Lower Sheering, Essex
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Colin,

I can only speak for myself as to the actions I have taken thus far in the process.

There was an appeals process that took place during 2016/7 regarding KwaCulture’s proposal for Isandlwana. Despite the numerous appeals made from within the Zulu War community final judgement was found in favour of the development.

As well as lodging my appeal I have spoken at length in person to the representatives of the South African National Government; the KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Government and the South African National Defence Force.

Through my links with the Zulu Royal House and other Zulu parties, I have plead the case to the direct descendants of King Cetshwayo kaMpande, Prince Dabulamanzi kaMpande and Ntshingwayo kaMahole of the Khoza clan - the victor of Isandlwana.

I have discussed matters at length with KwaCulture, it has been agreed that the graves discovered during the initial excavation will be incorporated within a memorial garden. I conducted Gugu to military memorial gardens in London in order for her to see the concepts used in those gardens. KwaCulture have agreed a respectful cordon sanitaire will be established around the graves, and if other graves are discovered as the development progresses they will be treated with the same respect.

KwaCulture has already established a very good link with the Friends of the Museum of the Royal Welsh, the descendant regiment of the 24th.

I hope that puts you in the loop somewhat?

JY
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Colin


Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 74
Location: U.K.
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John - Thanks. I very much appreciate you sharing this information.
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Politics around Isandlwana
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