rorkesdriftvc.com :: View topic - Sergeant M C Keane

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:48 pm

Peter

Many thanks for such a comprehensive response (which is exactly what I'd expect from you).

These pawnbrokers' marks fascinate me as I was completely unaware of them - as you know, I'm not a collector.

Yes, I can well imagine the annotation on the roll may have been accurate at one time but that it may not hold good for ever. I wondered whether the auctioneers might feel obliged (probably too strong a word) to mention that they were aware the roll originaly indicated no initial claim by n-o-k, simply to indicate they knewthat potential purchasers would also be aware of that. (On the other hand, might they be tempted not to flag it up for obvious reasons?) I suspected DNW would make absolutely sure of its genuineness before offering it - but, of course, errors have been made in the past, as we all know. I would have thought the bones adding interest to the medal would almost automatically affect how many showed an interest - and as a result of the presumably wider bidding, might also affect its eventual value. But perhaps not. The belief that it was on the market 20 years ago suggests at least some provenance, but I'd think a vendor might well hope for a premium as a result of the recent publicity and/or the comments made in the catalogue arising from AMAFA's press releases.

Obviously I exclude AMAFA from anything behind my partially raised eyebrow, but that was clear already I hope. Any "put up job" (as Gallo calls it - my verbosity was designed to avoid any vulgar expressions! Wink

) would have involved someone good at fiddling with medals, of whom there are a few about. One would certainly imagine AMAFA would enquire as to the provenance just in case it emerges that it has been in the family in fairly recent times. My question as to whether DNW might co-operate arose from my experience of their response some years ago to my own enquiry about a previous purchaser (through them) of my own grandfather Ewart's DCM group, which they side-stepped by saying their records of a few years earlier were not computerised.

Thanks again for your response, Peter.

Peter

P.S. Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense, Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense, Honi Soit ...
(Will 500 lines do?)

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:26 pm

Peter Ewart wrote:

Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense, Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense, Honi Soit ...
(Will 500 lines do?)

And as every English schoolboy knows, this really means "Honestly, Sir, I think I'm going to be sick".

Wink

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:54 pm

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:24 pm

A further point by way of background. Auctions come in all shapes and sizes but more than 1,000 lots is not uncommon - this auction has 1,800 over two days. Each lot can be a single medal, group of medals, collection of badges, items of militaria. Each lot has to be described and, where practical and time allows, researched. Information supplied with the item is checked. There is a limit to how much time can be spent on each lot.

Keane's medal is not the star of this auction and - in value terms - may not even be in the top 30. The auction has a medal to a Natal Mounted Police casualty of the same battle - I would have this over Keane every time but finances (lack of) preclude me from bidding for either.

Peter

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:29 pm

Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense

As a precocious youngster I managed to secure an invitation to the home of Sir Cenydd Traherne, Lord Lieutenant of Glamorgan, to view the insignia of the Knight of the Garter.

"And what does this mean?" asked Sir Cenydd, showing me the Garter. "I'm sorry sir my Latin is very poor," says I. "It's French," he replied, rather too quickly.

I blame the Comprehensive system myself............. Embarassed

Peter

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:27 am

We must be realistic and readily come to terms with the ichilling notion that some of the contributors to this site might not have gone to Eton or Harrow after all.

My word....

G

BTW, I was surprised to note that DNW's readiness to feature the more imaginative theories now surrounding Sgt Keane did not extend to the opportunity to postulate that he might also have been a bit of a fashion dandy; having apparently pioneered the one button suit jacket in Natal and Zululand; though the latter less satisfactorily so it would appear....

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:15 am

And the prices to the three Isandlwana casualties:
Keane �8,928
Secretan (NMP) �8,432
Sgt Lines (2/24th) �9,672

The Keane medal does not interest me at all. If I had the money I would have plumped for the NMP medal. I think that represents very good value but probably appeals to a minority.

As a comparison, the medal dealer Jim Bullock is selling the medal to 341 Pte W Jones 1/24th for �6,850. Lines commands a premium for rank and battalion but the price is top dollar.

Peter