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Date	Original Topic
20th March 2003	canvas bag By glynne HI there can anybody tell me what was held in the canvas bag carried over the shoulder by infantrymen. items of food? dirty washing? cleaning kit? any ideas? cheers Glynne
Date	Replies
21st March 2003	Martin Everett Hi Glynne, The instructions for the valise equipment (GO62 of 1878) state that there is: 1 bag, ammunition 1 belt, aist, with union locket 1 set of braces 2 pouches, ammunition, 20 rounds each 1 pair of straps, great coat 1 pair of straps, mess tin 1 pair of straps, supporting valise 1 valise to hold service kit. You appear to be refering to the ammunition bag. Normal amunition carried was 70 rounds. 40 in the front pouches (if both worn) and 30 in the bag. The instructions state that para 10 - when the two pouches and ammunition bag are worn, it is necessary that the braces should be worn to support the waist belt, as the weight of 60-70 rounds is too great for the waist belt alone.
21st March 2003	Martin Everett Sorry, Glynne, I forgot to mention the biscuit ration.
21st March 2003	Peter Quantrill Glynne, The valises were considered during the war to be too complicated. They were consequently not carried. As Martin states, you are referring to the ammunication bag, referred to as the "ball bag" in which a minimum of 30 rounds were carried. The bag was universally condemned. Wet weather resulted in constant repairs being required. In addition its position against the right thigh proved most uncomfortable whilst on the march. Most damning of all was that much ammunition was lost when troops were doubling into positions. This loss adds to the controversy and long standing debate over whether the ammunition shortage at Isandlwana played a significant role in the defeat. Certainly both Mostyn and Cavaye's companies must have suffered badly,and to a lesser extent, the remaining companies of the 24th. A conclusion must be drawn that possibly considerably less than 70 rounds were available to the firing line at Isandlwana when the action started. Unfortunately no one from the firing line survived to tesify, as they did in the subsequent battles. What occured at Kambula and Ulundi, did in all probality occur at Isandlwana. So poorly did the ball bag perform, that the suggestion was made that the easiest way of carrying ammo was via a bandolier carried over the shoulder. Peter
21st March 2003	glynne sorry chaps, I don't think we're talking about the same item. I know the ball bag you talk of was attached to the belt, but I'm talking about the large haversack carried over the shoulder and hangs against the hip next to the bayonet. cheers Glynne
22nd March 2003	John Young Glynne, The item to which you refer is the haversack. The haversack could contain: a bar of soap; a pair of socks (clean or otherwise); some hard tack biscuit; a ration of tea and other mundane sundries. John Y.
24th March 2003	ian Glynne, the haversack also contained your daily ration ie, cheese,bacon,dried or boiled beef depending on the culinary delight of the days issue, by the late 19c an emergency ration was also kept in it,a seperate pocket was incorporated for the emergency ration with the introduction of the 1903 pat haversack.hope this is of help.
24th March 2003	Glynne Thanks for the help chaps cheers Glynne
27th March 2003	Adrian Whiting Glynne, The haversack pattern in use with the 1871 Valise equipment was made of a material called dowlas, similar to canvas. As well as being able to hold what has been mentioned above it also had a pocket to the rear outside (i.e. sat against the soldier's left hip) which could accomodate a tin plate. Internally it had vertical pockets stiched to the rear side of it which could hold knife/fork/spoon. I would be interested if anyone had any evidence of these items actually being carried though, since oldiers also carried a clasp knife and a mess tin, which essentially could serve the same purposes, if somewhat more crudely. When empty the haversack was rolled up and secured with a button - you might see this in contemporary illustrations. Hope this assists. Adrian