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Date	Original Topic
5th November 2002	COLOURS By Bill Cainan I have been a re-enactor for a number of years and have noticed the recent increase in replica colours being carried by re-enactment groups. I am currently a member of the 1879 Group, which has a set of replica colours of the 24th Regt. I am very much aware of the significance and importance of Colours, particularly to Infantry Regiments and wondered how the practice of using replica colours is viewed generally. I suppose a lot depends on whether you have served "with the Colours" or not. It certainly looks good to have colours flying, but I wonder on the legality of the issue. I understand that there is Crown Copyright on Regimental Badges, but does this also apply to Regimental Colours ? Is permission required for their use ? Martin Everett, as curator of the SWB Museum in Brecon, you have the traditions of that Regiment very much in your hands - what is the answer (if there is one !) ? Bill
Date	Replies
6th November 2002	Martin Everett Bill, That's a fast ball! I will try and field it. From early times, the Colours carried by the infantry have been the rallying point in battle and visible symbol of their corporate identity. They display the Regiments Battle Honours; in the army's words – a Battle Honour is a public commemoration of a battle, action or engagement of which not only past and present, but also future generations of the Regiment can be proud. The Colours have to be the heart of any regiment. In recent times, a number of re-enactment groups have started to recreate the lives of soldiers of the 24th – their uniforms, equipment, drills, tactics etc. There is no doubt that these groups have brought history to life and have done much to foster a wider public interest in the British Army of 18th and 19th century. These volunteers, who give up their free time, can be commended for the standards they achieve and their commitment. Re-enactment groups with Colours? Is that a step too far? They have not earn the Honours carried on these replica Colours. Interestingly, in the 1880s and 1890s the 24th Regiment, South Wales Borderers had five volunteer (or part-time) battalions in the Border Counties of Wales in addition to the two regular battalions. Volunteers wore the same uniform (apart for some minor differences) as their regular counterparts. They wore the same Sphinx collar badges but were not allowed the word 'Egypt' beneath the Sphinx – as this was a Battle Honour gained by the regulars. Should re-enactment groups carry the Battle Honour – 'South Africa 1877-8-9'. Perhaps these groups wish have Colours in order to bring that extra sense of legality or legitimacy to their activities? I believe it could be a step too far in the eyes of those who have actually served in the South Wales Borderers and their families. I wonder whether anyone else has an opinion on this tricky subject? Martin
6th November 2002	John Young Dear Martin, Obviously if those re-enactment groups were doing it right the Battle Honour 'South Africa 1877-8-9' would not by borne on the Regimental Colour anyway. At the time of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879 the Queen's Colours of both the 1st & 2nd Battalions of 24th were, as you know, devoid of battle honours, only the scroll 'IInd Battalion' differentiated the two battalions. Maybe a compromise could be reached by having false 'battle honours' suchas where a group have performed a display with some public distinction as examples - 'Tilbury Fort', 'Aldershot' or 'Isandlwana 1999' etc. Just a thought. There are those who, in my opinion, do go too far when an American Civil War re-enactment group appeared at the Royal Tournament, some years back, a group of them went to Brecon in the uniform of 24th in 1879. The event was recorded in 'Soldier' magazine and a photograph appeared. In that photograph "the officer" was wearing the Victoria Cross, to my knowledge that person had no right to wear that award on the left side of his chest, or even on the right for that matter! I personally know of one occasion when a predecessor of your's actually left instructions with a member of the Museum's staff to bar those re-enactors in 24th uniform from entering the Museum. It appears at least Museum's stance has mellowed since then. John Young, Chairman, Anglo-Zulu War Research Society.
6th November 2002	James Garland Whatever the legal rights or wrongs are, these re enactors pursue their hobby in a spirit of admiration for the regements they are portraying. They are keeping alive the memory of brave men and great deeds and I think they should be commended for it. Things could be much worse. Imagine if no one bothered to remember these things and it was all forgotten. Allowing these people to carry replicas of Regimental Colours is a small concession to make for the hard work they put in. Good luck to them I say.
6th November 2002	Bill Cainan Martin Thanks for the "official stance" reply - it certainly does give food for thought. I think the key point is that whatever is done should be based on "respect". As with all things that re-enactment groups do, provided it is done for the right reasons and with due reverance and respect, then it should help to enhance the visual recreation. The danger is probably in the "fringe" groups doing things for a laugh - "bikers on acid refighting Rorke's Drift " ! Most of the readers of this site undoubtedly have a genuine interest in the AZW, and I think we all have a collective responsibility to ensure that we do nothing to bring the topic into disrepute. I would also like to think that if we do come across such instances, that we bring them to the attention of this web site and also to the SWM Museum in Brecon (when items pertain to the 24th).. I think John hit on a valid point, when he mentioned that the SWB museum had previously exercised a dgree of control on those individuals or groups who wish to portray the Regiment in an historic sense. As the Museum is responsible for all matters pertaining to the historical soul of the Regiment then it can bestow the official "seal of approval" or not as the case may be. It is perhaps fourtunate that the 1879 Group works very closely with the SWB Museum and potential controversial matters can normally be talked through to ensure that the spirit and ethos of the Regiment are maintained in all things that are done by the re-enactment/living history group. Once a re-enactor puts on the uniform of a soldier of the 24th, he should do NOTHING that would bring that uniform into disrepute. Thanks to you both for your contributions to what I feel is a very important issue. Bill
8th November 2002	Adrian Whiting Speaking from the perspective of being a member of the Victorian Military Society's Diehard Company we have not "progressed" to the point of placing replica Colours on parade simply through not having a correct representation, numerically, of the number of soldiers that would warrant it, in our view. If we all turned out together we would muster forty. On that basis we would seem to justify one officer alone, since we are keen to depict an Infantry half-company. I guess that if we decided to recreate a Colour Party then it may be different. Clearly there are other groups who have decided to portray Colour Parties, and if done accurately I personally have no issue with them. Ultimately any re-enactor worth their salt needs to draw motivation from a respectful depiction of those who were for real. If replica Colours, and medals for that matter, offend, then they should be avoided. Whilst we occasionally portray soldiers of the 24th Regiment, we primarily represent soldiers of the 1st Battalion Middlesex regt, C1886, and in that regard have enjoyed great support from the Regimental Association, who have generously donated a Regimental Flag (sic) for campsite use. We occasionally turn men out wearing medal ribbons, or medals, for campaign service - but have declined to permit the wearing of individual conduct medals, such as the V.C. This is rather driven for us by the fact that we do not portray named historic individuals. In summary, a sensitive area. I think the key is very much to behave responsibly and respectfully, and be prepared to re-think if people take issue.