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Date	Original Topic
15th October 2002	Were they really there? By Patrick Thomas I notice that the Bourne roll of 1910, includes the names of several men who do not appear on the Chard roll of 1879, and vice versa. Which of the two is regarded as the more accurate?
Date	Replies
15th October 2002	John Young Patrick, The "Chard Roll" you refer to isn't actually by Chard - I suggest you get hold of either 'The Silver Wreath' or 'The Noble 24th', both by the late Norman Holme, where this matter is discussed at great length. I would not add to your confusion by mentioning the Bourne amended roll or the William Dunbar list. You can't actually rely on just one source to arrive at a figure for the defenders. John Young, Chairman, Anglo-Zulu War Research Society.
15th October 2002	Patrick Thomas Thanks John I have copies of the Silver Wreath, the Noble 24th and also Rorke's Drift by Dr. Greaves, which contains much the same information. I'm merely trying to establish if these men named by Bourne, whether it be on his first roll or his amended version, but who do not appear on the Chard or Dunbar rolls were actualy present at the battle.
16th October 2002	John Young Patrick, Over the course of the weekend, I was shown something that "proved" a certain soldier was present at Rorke's Drift. The material I saw is worthy of further research, if it can be proved then another name should be added to roll of defenders. In the transcript of Frank Bourne's broadcast -(Please note that the full transcript is not included in 'The Silver Wreath' or by The Anglo Zulu War Historical Society, when they reproduced the it, missing out the same sections as Holme!) he actually states the names of the following as being alive at the time of the broadcast; '...Ex-Privates W. Cooper, G. Edwards, H. Martin, W. Owens, H. Williams, and myself. ...' These were Private 2453 William Cooper, Private 972 George Edwards (a.k.a. George Edward Orchard), Private 756 Henry Martin, James Owens, a.k.a Private 963 David Lewis. As to 'H. Williams' there in lies the rub - I know of no 'H. Williams' present, according to any other rolls, at the action - yet Frank Bourne names him, why both Norman Holme & the Anglo Zulu War Historical Society chose to exclude this comment I don't know? But there in 'The Listener' of the 30th December, 1936, we have another possible 'defender' named. There are three possible contenders for this -Privates 1053 H. Williams, 2637 H. Willams & 979 H.P. Williams - an examination of the Medal Roll housed at the Public Record Office, Kew, established the fact that 2637 H. Williams was entitled to a no bar medal, so perhaps he can be excluded, or can he? Who was actually at Rorke's Drift is still a 'can of worms', and I hope I'm opening another one by throwing you that little piece of information. John Young, Chairman, Anglo-Zulu War Research Society.
19th October 2002	Julian whybra Can I put in a word for 25B 953 Pvte Frederick Evans 2/24th who appears in Bourne's roll but is excluded from 'Chard's'. Holme in both his books confuses this man with Pvte Edward Evans from 2/3rd, though in private correspondence with me he acknowledged his error. There is also a letter from F Evans to his wife in which he mentions having been at RD.
19th October 2002	Martin Everett Dear Patrick, One or two surviving service papers in PRO do state 'present at Rorke's Drift'. But not all the papers have survived. Many soldiers wrote home from Rorke's Drift - the 2nd Battalion stayed there until mid-April 1879 - and later recounted stories of the events of the 22/23 January - but many were not present during the actual fighting. I have a newspaper cutting from the Belfast Telegraph in 1936 reporting the death and funeral of Pte R Mussen - the report is headed 'Rorke's dift Survivor' and his given a full military funeral with gun carriage and horses. Families were naturally very proud to have someone in the family who 'was at Rorke's Drift'. It is difficult to explain that he may not have been a defender.
22nd October 2002	Lee Stevenson The following gentlemen also received military funerals/obituaries as "Defenders of Rorke's Drift" although they do not appear on any of the rolls of defenders;- Private Albert Bridgeman, 2nd/24th Private James Philis, 1/13th LI John Hughes, 24th ? Philip Price 24th ? Jack Gardner24th ? Joseph Davenport 24th? WJ Thomas Harry Lang 24th Arthur Atkins 24th